DH set bonus, seriously?

(2) Set Bonus: Each slash of Blade Dance has a 50% chance to Throw Glaive an enemy for 35% damage.

(4) Set Bonus: Throw Glaive reduces the remaining cooldown of The Hunt by 0.4 seconds, and The Hunt’s damage over time effect lasts 4 seconds longer.

So instead of listening to feedback, it looks like we’re learning into either momentum or the glaive throw build.

I swear I cannot even, there’s no way ill play either one, stop shoehorning me into unemployable playspecs and at least make other options viable.


Yeah that tier bonus is out of left field.

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Nothing will change before 10.2. We might get a decent one 10.3

first of all tier set pushes us away from meta uptime and into a melee mid range build that allows us to not be punished so much by down time. also talent tree changes incoming so it might even be better than it is right. especially if the hunt is buffed

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Both tier sets are laughably bad and I seriously doubt any talent changes will change this fact. This dev is useless and should be taken off of DH immediately and replaced by someone with a shred of competence.

No player feedback is listened to or responded to besides the many toxic elitists in that terrible class Discord lol. I have zero hope left for this class.


both have potential, what was discussed makes this potential skyrocket with potential talent changes. with the bluepost talking about veng having a sigil identity in spec tree with a sigil tierset, leads to interest at least

subjective at best, each havoc change was based on feedback. im sorry but “removing momentum” it just not helpful, constructive, or polite feedback especially when your calling for someone to be removed cause you “think” the tier sets are bad without getting the full picture

Nah, not true. Not even those players feedback is being listened or, else Fodder wouldn’t exist and we’d have Chaos Blades already.

Same with Momentum. If the overwhelming feedback about something is negative and there’re no redeeming aspects about it, sadly deletion/replacement is probably the most adequate thing to do.


No where in my statement did I say “momentum”. No where on these forums will you find me asking for it to be removed either.

These 2 tier sets are garbage and I really doubt any amount of talent changes will make them good. VDH especially is looking like a solid D tier tank in season 3.

it was a example of whats usually posted here in the forums

uniroincally? with current talents, tier set makes is turbo strong in aoe+ since sigil tier effects each mob seperately. which leads to meme fury generation and spiritbomb spammign form the amount of souls spawned and vdh benefit like softo tierset

plus the blue post saying stuff about veng dh having a potential sigil based identity or build i can totally see a world where vdh tier can synergy well in st aspect with a sigil based talent build with new talents.

stop crystal balling when literally a rogue level talent tree change is still underwraps. it helps no one to label stuff as “d tier” without the fullstory or understanding of tier effects in the CURRENT tree

The dev isn’t good for DH. Few, if any, of the changes post SLs have been welcomed by long time DH mains. None that I know personally enjoy the talent trees and radically different playstyles introduced to havoc. Most of the people who enjoy it now are people who picked up DH post SLs and those people will bash you like their word is gospel about DH all day every day.

Things like Essence Break literally being mandatory, there isn’t a single build without it, are a problem. The talent trees and capstones suck and the last 2 havoc tier sets have been bad if this makes it live. Say what you want but these tier sets look like garbage and not fun to play.

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SL havoc was never fun, theres nothing fun for anni spam to get my brand uptime.

every spec in the game regardless of role has a mandatory column in all builds, again if you bought into the “all builds viable” cope blzizard sold you then idk what else to say


Okay but remove momentum at least.


That isn’t true at all. I was night fae for 2 seasons, and it was fun. Plus there were 2 viable builds in dungeons for DH. Momentum and Essence Break should be its own playstyle away from the Eye Beam and Blade Dance builds. The talent tree is junk and likely will still be junk once the “rework” is done.


considering what was said, im convinced momentum will be changed to be better for everyone.

1 season, season 2 is when sinfulbrand started appearing after wfr was finished cause of coven lego, how it added to frost shard with gt.

again pointless dooming like that helps no one. one of our posts will age like milk and for everyone’s sake i hope its yours

It’s funny because I have to keep repeating that momentum isn’t the problem, initiative is :grin:

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I don’t think neither Initiative nor UBC are as problematic, simply because they don’t force a constant Fel Rush/VR spam gameplay.

FRushing/VRing every 20 seconds is fine, most of the time (hello Sludgefist). Most players will find ways to do it without massively inting into some mechanic, it doesn’t become overbearing. I could continue arguing whether the movement playstyle makes sense in this game, but I digress.

However, the fact that either Momentum or IP make you Fel Rush basically on CD, is where I personally draw the line. It’s incredibly annoying and it’s also a hefty DPS cost not to do so.

Considering how encounters are done in this game, which is obvious to pretty much anybody that has touched the endgame in this expansion, this shouldn’t exist. Momentum works in void. It doesn’t work inside of real scenarios. The only scenario in which I think Momentum becomes something I can digest is if it becomes a 20s buff when Fel Rushing, but that completely defeats the purpose of the talent.

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I mean, again, you’re factually wrong. You come in here, making statements as if you’re some authority on DH when really you’re just echoing players from the Felhammer. I doubt at this point that you even play DH for real. :dracthyr_shrug:

Shadowlands 9.0 was season 1, 9.1 was season 2. We could not equip a second legendary until season 3. I played all 4 covenants in SLs, depending on group needs. I was mainly Night Fae for season 1 and 2 though and there were 2 viable M+ builds. You could run EB + Momentum or Demonic build.

My problem with the class tree is that these 2 distinct playstyles are now blurred together. I hate being forced into mandatory talents, there is no freedom of choice unless I want my DPS to severely suffer.

EB doesn’t even synergize with Cycle of Hatred.

There are so many problems with DH since SLs ended. This dev has had over a year and in that whole time it has been nothing but disappointment. If I failed miserably at my job for this long, there would be hell to pay.

My faith that anything will change to make havoc feel less of a monkey spec is nil.


This is the exact problem. It’s garbage. I’m not playing an action rpg.


they did listen, some people enjoy the TG build. not everyone enjoy afking until the 40 sec go comes off cd and you can essence break again.

we also dont know the extent of our talent changes and further more it might make it so we no longer need to press TG in some builds to benefit from Serrated glaive.

i actually agree. it also might work in tandem with a meta uptime build since Meta can give haste and haste reduces cooldowns of TG/dance. Also fury spent on TG (if talented) can help to extend meta uptime.

it actually feels like a pretty solid neutral 2 set if you can see the entire picture.

while i dont mind the set bonus, i agree 100% with this sentiment.

this isn’t true, some change depending on the situation or are so close you can make a decision on which playstyle you prefer and not be so far behind because you didn’t lock in the best choice by far (essence break in this case)

you mean bfa in all honesty.

how am i wrong? yes momentum build was the to go in s2 of sl, but sinfulbrand started appearing right after. there are logs supporting this, vods ,streams ect ect.

you didnt play double legos until wfr of season 3 was finished, you were stuck with agony gaze as the single lego end of s2 and start of s3. this is common info? sorry for not leltting you spout disinfo guess im a elitist mouth piece that wont let anyone be wrong freely

sounds like you bought into blizzards lie of “talent trees will have options that are all viable” when this was never the case in any game with talent trees.

hence why its hated and one of the issues havoc has including 90+% meta uptime

says who? the spec was literally made a spec from sl to df, its not “abuse borrowed power to do damage” thats a huge win and improvement in the grandscheme of things. you also are aware that blizzard the company is at f ault for not hiring more devs and t hus slamming multiple specs on one dev to work on? you are away that the rogue and dh dev had a hand in multiple other reworks not just rogue and dh. if anything blame the damn company not the people who are overworked and tryign to appease dummies like you

the fact we agree is terrifying

no one spec that has this freedom

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