even in the current talent trees you dont get access to it till youre more than halfway done with the leveling. Leeching poison is in the 8th row of the main tree.
Poison - no, bleeds - Sub was first, then devs took it to the Sin spec. So, yeah, it’s natural, and I still wait for my Sub Hemo, Sanguinary Veins and Serrated Blades.
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You can turn your rupture into pure shadow damage causing it to scale off deeper daggers and the +10% passive magic dmg talent. Dark brew also buffs shadow dmg by 20% too. It really seems like keeping finality ruptures up on your kill target in pvp can be a really nice, I just hope that since it turns into Shadow dmg that it won’t become a magical debuff. This would allow it to be dispelled 
I miss sang veins too though, I’d rather just go back to our mop/wod playstyle across the board for all specs.
These trees are confusing to me. I see the abilities I’m interested in actually choosing between, but they’re more often than not at the end of chains of other passive buffs or utterly unrelated abilities, and I have no way in game to really understand that impact, so will undoubtedly turn to people who have more time and inclination to figure it all out. Are those the people in the playerbase they’re actually interested in building this for? Because it feels like it.
I know people like trees, I know they’re tired of the existing talent system, but the existing system has an enormous advantage in clarity, and I think people discount that too much in their excitement for something, anything new.
I’ve played this game since 2008, I’ve grown as a player, dabbled in mythic raiding and have pushed pretty high keys, and this new system is just confusing and unfun to me. Really wish they’d focus more on creating fun things to do in the game rather than all this energy messing around with our characters that they are only making harder for them to balance.
I’m betting we could probably pull the things we actually want to use out of these trees, discard the rest, and put something together that is easier to understand and more satisfying. Do we really need multiple talents with multiple points required to buff Fan of Knives? Do we really need a row of pinnacle class-wide skills including a covenant ability, Thistle Tea, and sub’s signature ability? What does Marked for Death have to do with getting Thistle Tea, anyway? Blargh.
Yeah I’m not really happy either, putting our entire class into a talent tree and calling it new is a joke. So many things that are in there should just be passive, like why are Blind, feint, evasion, sap, and cloak talents? They should just passive to our class…
You already currently gain those while leveling. Even now they arent baked into the class.
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Yeah, but you don’t have to talent into those choices yes? Even in past version of the games with talent trees we didn’t have to talent into sap and blind. So why now? Each tree would have talents that would reduce the cd or modify each spell, but you wouldn’t have to straight up spec into getting basic abilities like sap, blind, ect, ect.
Its 2022. They actually designed these trees pretty well considering what they had in mind. The leveling process is now solely rewarded through the talent trees. You get a point every level. Of course this means they couldnt just bake all the important abilities into classes. Thats why they made the talent tiers. You need to invest 8 points in those first 3 rows before you can move on, so naturally youre gonna select all those important abilities. You have more choice over which ones, but in the end youre gonna have most of them. The end result is the same as the current system, just more fluid.
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I like Poison Bomb as a capstone, I made this: https://i.imgur.com/bR2gEIK.jpg
Basically Poison Bomb is on use and have an AoE Shiv effect, and Improved Shiv have it’s current effect (which is mindblowing the amount of effects Blizzard wants one button to have and I think that’s counter intuitive) replaced with a damage buff. That’s all I could ask to improvements going into DF, clickable Poison Bomb with the Improved Shiv Effect and a buff button.
For the general tree suggestion, feels bad spending 1/3 of the points just to get basic buttons we already have.
Can we get deadly poison instead of Shiv into the class tree pls. Garrote would of been too good but Deadly poison would be nice on all spec.
And get a second charge added into improved Shiv so assa still get their 2 charge for the dmg buff
The issues with your Improved Shiv is the enrage it give is the same thing as Lethal dose but weaker. It would be better if it would spread some poisons or bleed into AoE.
This wont happen for the simple fact that Blizz is incompetent when it comes to Sin. We’ve been calling for PB to be put on a charge system since Legion. Replenish charges the same way it currently procs but have the charges be on use off the GCD.
We got them through leveling. Youre not getting them again, youre just spending the points you got from leveling.
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Yeah, I’d bet most ppl choose 2 first row in rogue class tree as a mandatory thing. The choose between our basic abilities is an illusion, they could be our basic abilities as they are now.
“An illusion? What are you hiding?”
Well, despite some toughts I’m pretty happy with the rogue class and Sub tree. Still waiting for one thing tought.
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I want deadly poison in the spec tree over Shiv XD
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Agreed , rogue class tree is solid for us. Be wary of saboteurs friend.
The problem was is people look down from level 60. It’s designed for level 10 looking up. Stuff we can now get sooner and that is why these were made this way.
Gouge has to stay, the whiners already took garrote.
Recuperate is good but they don’t want us healing much so we deal with it.
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Exactly, we aren’t “buying back” anything as people keep saying. It’s looking level 10 up , not 60 down.
Trees are good and do not need to be changed.
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Overall, I think the rogue talents look promising with the changes they made so far. I’m not a fan of shiv being a dps increase plus a utility skill. Imo it should be baseline for the utility and simply bring back toxic blade.
I’m curious on what other changes are in coming.
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It would be fair imo to add Recuperate - it’s fair with its core, because when you spend your combo points on healing, you deal less dmg instead. In addition, they could make choose-node to choose between Crimson Vial and Recuperate, if they don’t want to add too many healing. Everyone would take its favorite ability / gameplay that way.
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I HOPE more changes are comming. In the last build they changed the names of rogue’s talents removing “[NYI]” from it, so yeah, it’s going so far rather to consolidate then experiment and further changes…
One week a little rearrangement, here and there, Dark Brew changed, Kingsbane added, Shiv replaced Garrote, and… mostly done for now.
My eyeballs popped up, when I saw warrior class tree. Also, compare Blizz post about Warrior (especially Warrior) talent tree introduction, and Shaman’s, Druid’s vs. post about Rogue’s. Maybe it’s just me, but when they talk about Warrior f.ex., you know they love the class. They dare to describe what favorite abilities players are, what will stay, what will remain, and what new will come in a pretty detailed way, talked about specific abilities.
When you read about Rogue it’s, well, rather general.
Eh…
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I knew none of the mfs played rogue when they added SnD to Sin and Sub.
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