DF Devs are Trying to Kill Demonic and Force Momentum

I’d rather see Metamorphosis go than Demonic. Weaving in and out of demon form with Demonic is a major part of Havoc Demon Hunter’s identity. If anything a 4 minute CD that puts us in Demonic form feels lackluster and boring.

Blizzard should consider changing our major CD into something that empowers our demon form from Demonic, rather than try to redesign Demonic just to make Metamorphosis more meaningful.


Completely agree. Demonic has been a staple of havoc gameplay for 4 years. It needs to always be a talent that’s worth taking.

Trust me, as someone who suffered that playstyle through the beginning of bfa, it’s not.

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I would see them as a choice, which is sort of what occurs with Demonic and Demonic Oath.

I suspect that Demonic players will utilize Meta as a 3 minute reset for Eye Beam, Blade Dance, Restless Hunter, and Inner Demon, with them using a /cancelaura macro to remove demonic form.
At the start of a fight, and at 3 minutes Demonic will most likely do something including this:

Eye Beam (full channel) - enters Demonic
Essence Break (if talented)
Death Sweep (benefits from EssB)
Chaos Strike (Inner Demon proc, EssB)
Chaos Strike/Glaive Tempest/Throw Glaive (depending on talents)
Death Sweep (should be able to get another DS due to haste)
/cancelaura or Demonic expires (triggers Restless Hunter)
Metamorphosis (resets Eye Beam and Blade Dance, triggers Inner Demon)
Death Sweep (benefits from Restless Hunter)
Chaos Strike (Inner Demon procs)
/cancelaura (Restless Hunter triggers)
Eye Beam (enters Demonic)
Death Sweep (benefits from Restless Hunter)
Chaos Strike (triggers Inner Demon)

I’m not sure if talents all work yet to test if that sequence does work, but it seems like a really powerful opener.

Imo burst metas are way more fun. Being able use use essence break and then dump as much damage as I can into it instead of just aim to keep demonic for consistent damage is a lot more interesting and fun.

I’m very indifferent on essence break. It needs to line up with demonic though, but the way they are doing it is backwards. EB needs to be a 30 or 60 second cd, instead of demonic getting nerfed to a 40 second cd.

This specific issue is enough to consider making a 3rd spec. At this point, we need a viable 3rd spec that plays off big CDs and burst while trying not to disturb the established style that revolves around shorter CDs with more constant pressure and less burst.

As a player who previously mained a rogue, I’d say now’s the time for Blizzard to flesh out DH’s pressure/rot spec like Assassination to go up against a more bursty Subtlety spec.

problem to me seems like they can’t even create a single dps spec. it’s all well and good saying momentum should be put in its own ghetto away from all the serious players but when it inevitably pulls ahead you’re all getting force-femmed no different than you are now :face_with_peeking_eye:

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So, what is your proposal?

Just nerf demonic and then what?

If your answer is, in any way, to move toward momentum becoming the meta then you are just substituting a popular meta choice with an unpopular meta choice

Screw momentum

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my proposal is remove demonic entirely.

And just leave everything else the same?

That sounds like it would suck.

Removing demonic allows them to tune meta to do actual damage inside the CD and allows them to tune your damage up outside of meta. As long as demonic exists meta wont be a good CD

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If they do Demonic Origins right, and it adds sufficient damage/defence.

10% Vers is a small step, but still needs to be tuned upwards I think.

20% Vers perhaps.

They can do something like this:

They can change Demonic to grant Chaos Blades, and not grant the Demon form, thus decoupling them. Then you can buff Meta to also include the Chaos Blades effect, which would make it a stronger damage cooldown.

the uptimes you end up over the course of a 240 second fight would be:

  1. With Demonic - 8x6 seconds of Chaos Blades (8 eyebeams each granting 6 seconds of Chaos Blades) + 6 sec of Chaos Blades (from chaotic transformation) + 6-12 sec of Chaos Blades if you go Cycle of Hatred and can fit 1 or 2 more Eye Beams in the 240 sec window + 30 sec of Chaos Blades from Meta, and 30 seconds of the current Meta effects. So around 78 seconds of Chaos Blades, before other talents + 30 seconds of current Meta effects.

  2. With Demonic Origins. Say it lowers Meta CD to 120 seconds, and duration by 5 seconds to 25. In 240 seconds, it’s 50 seconds of Chaos Blades + 50 Seconds of current Meta effects, before Shattered Destiny.

So Demonic would end up with higher uptime on Chaos Blades, while Demonic Origins would end up with a higher uptime on the current Meta effects, which would make it easier to balance, as they can be adjusted separately.

There is further opportunity for flavor, with Chaos Blades maybe buffing just Chaos Damage and pairing well with Any Means Necessary, which would make Demonic stronger in this combination.

Restless Hunter and Inner Demon would need to be reworked to activate from gaining/losing Chaos Blades, but that’s an easy fix I suppose.

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I do remember in the beginning when Demonic wasn’t a thing. I for one, would hate to go back. I enjoy popping into a big old Demon frequently.

But I am very likely swapping mains next season, anyway.

You do realize giving chaos blades for demonic does absolutely nothing for Veng right

hadn’t thought about veng tbh. but you can either have it increase fire damage as well, or have it increase healing received, or armor, whatevs. the idea is to split the “demon” form from demonic from the one from meta

I don’t think we need to reinvent the entire talent to balance it.

To balance Demonic and Demonic Origins I think we only need;

  • The Vers bonus for Demonic Origins increased or additional benefits added as I don’t believe that 10% is sufficient benefit.
  • Restless Hunter & Inner Demon rebalanced/designed for equal benefit.

The second point especially, those two talents greatly favor Demonic, almost useless for Demonic Origins.

i get what you are saying and you are right, but i find versa as a flavorless, lazy fix. it sure works, but there’s nothing cool about it

But it’s gonna be so JUICY with PI and Lust. :smiley:

Haven’t used momo at all and out dpsing momo dhs by about double