It absolutely is fine. It’s not a ridiculous notion to suggest, either.
You might be drooling at the mouth for an interrupt - but you also have to recognize that this mind control is flat out more powerful than silence in any way in PvE.
In PvP it’s not, sure. But if the concern is M+, this is absolutely more powerful.
Dominate Mind is a more powerful version of Control Undead because you can basically MC most mobs you’ll face in dungeons. They got rid of Inspiring so that removes that niche as well with being able to MC the Inspired mob.
Dominate Mind isn’t going to interrupt undead/mechanical/bosses.
Dominate Mind isn’t going to interrupt anything in a pinch, with a nearly 2 second cast time.
You know what will work in those scenarios? An interrupt.
In niche scenarios it’s powerful, but to say it’s more powerful in M+ in general, is just flat out wrong.
Shackle undead interrupts undead mobs. Used it as a spammable interrupt in Theater a lot.
You know what else does this, without a cast time?
An Interrupt
Not sure why shackle is being brought up anyway, the suggestion that Dominate Mind is fine in place of an interrupt is laughable. To bring in shackle undead is just lunacy.
There’s only like two bosses where missing a kick will wipe the group. Both of them are in Mists. And the tank can solo that and it’s really their job to kick those.
Getting a 45s interrupt isn’t going to carry the group. Having the ability to drag along one of the elite mobs as extra dps throughout an entire boss fight is a much bigger boon. It can help make keys more timeable.
You seem to be thinking that we’re advocating against having an interupt in our class tree. That’s totally not the case for me. Just saying that it’s an interresting addition and can help in some ways with the interrupt problem.
With how the talents are structured right now, I’m not even sure I’d pick an interrupt for healing in dungeons, because Healer interrupt is not needed.
Now, would I like to have the option to have an interrupt? Totally. For soloing as a healer, I would LOVE to have this. And sometimes in pugs, maybe. But healers have a lot of other things to worry about and I don’t always have the luxury of looking at the mobs cast bar (which is the only context a healer interrupt can be useful, when multiple mobs can cast something) No way I’m needed to interrupt on a boss, that’s not happening.
There’s more to dungeons than just important thing on boss to be interrupted.
When you get into higher keys having an interrupt becomes incredibly valuable for preventing damage to your group. Also, the narrative that an interrupt should be exclusive with dominate mind is not my creation.
I’m simply commenting on the fact that having dominate mind isn’t a reasonable alternative or a logical reasoning to not receive an interrupt.
It’s not a directly advocating, but implying dominate mind is stronger than a kick and better than a kick is about the same in terms of feedback. I also didn’t say you were, I was responding to other people.
Every additional kick in a dungeon (especially at higher key levels) is extremely useful. Less casts going off, less damage going out, less mobs healing, less CC on your group.
You say it’s not needed, which is true, but that doesn’t mean it’s not extremely valuable, definitely more valuable than dominate mind.
We regularly utilize our shaman healers interrupt on interrupt rotations in M+. I don’t mean this to be abrasive, but that’s entirely a “learn to play” issue if you can’t handle healing and an interrupt.
And that might work for your group or your playstyle, but it’s not the most you could be offering to a group.
I’m not saying I can’t do it. When I play shaman I do interrupt, and I sometimes Shining Force or Psychic Scream because others don’t interrupt in pugs (because that’s what I’m doing most of the time, I pug…)
Shaman has the? shortest interrupt of all classes, of course you can use it if you have one. But priest is going to bring what? 25sec, 30sec interrupt? that’s hardly going to make such a big difference…
I guess bringing an extra mage, hunter, or warlock has never made a difference in that case.
The only concern I had with pushing +24-26+ keys was surviving not being obliterated in one shot by bosses on Tyrannical week if Guardian Spirit+Desperate Prayer was on cd. At least they addressed that with the recent build.
In regards to interrupts: there’s only 4-6 trash pulls in all the Shadowlands dungeons that required coordinated kicks. Also, if interrupts were so valuable than the specs without them would be a lot less represented.
Shamans have the advantage regardless of situation because of bringing Hero + having an interrupt + solid damage. Building a team around Resto Shamans is a lot easier than building one around a Holy Priest.
Cool, Shackle undead stops undead enemies. Boss interrupts are always the tank’s job unless they mess up, then you’ve got 4 DPS with you to kick it. There’s very RARE exceptions to this rule.
It doesn’t need to. You do it at the start of the pull and BAM now you don’t even have to consider the interrupt.
And? If I REALLY DESPERATELY NEED an interrupt, you know many humanoid mobs have interrupts, right?
Absolutely not needed in +24 keys. The amount of times my shaman kick was needed there is near-zero. Even if you were 100% right about this, you’re entirely missing the point:
Indefinite Mind Control through a dungeon is more powerful than an interrupt.
That is what is being said. Not that it’s a replacement for an interrupt, but that if I was given a choice between an interrupt and an indefinite mind control on any humanoid in a dungeon, I would take the latter every time.
It’s a at best a modestly powerful spell in pvp. Less powerful than any spam-able cc that doesn’t also cc yourself for the duration
That’s fair.
It definitely has some pretty powerful uses, especially in Arena, but yeah, it isn’t super hard to counter, and other forms of CC are definitely better.
But again, not trying to say we should lose all our control (we shouldn’t). Just that for a PvE M+ healing priest, not having an interrupt isn’t the end of the world, and having the new dominate mind instead is just generally better. It’s more a problem in PvP. And in raid it’s completely irrelevant.
Is that really going to work? Ever since I saw that on the tree I just assumed somehow they’d make the mobs worth controlling too high level, the wrong types, randomly break control for no explanation whatsoever, crash your game client inexplicably, the pet breaking control and ignoring all other aggro to kill you, or some other nonsense that makes it more of a pain than a boon.
I’m using it in dungeons now and it works fine.
And there’s some pets that do some massive damage.
There are still some elites that are immune inexplicably, but every dungeon has things worth MCing. And some of them are making up like 10% my damage.
There are also pets that have interrupts/silences, so FWIW, you can get one that way.
Elites - the bane of too much priest utility…
The class design philosophy is fine if it applies to everyone. Why are rogues, warriors, and mages self-healing at all? That seems to break class boundaries pretty badly.
Reading a lot of posts from the recent changes and seeing the DF playstyle of the Shadow Priest has me concerned. I looked over the talent tree and here are some of the major issues…
1.) Too many buttons - There’s too much to do which makes many CDS and spells unusable in most situations. Shadow priests shouldn’t need a 10-button rotation (not including major CDS) to do damage. This makes the class extremely clunky to play. Moving Mindspike to the 2nd tier and making it a choice between Mind spike and Mindflay will help cut down on the overload. Mind Spike was the filler back in Legion while Mindflay was the filler for every other expansion. There is no need for 2 filler spells here. Less is more sometimes. I remember quite well when the shadow priest rotation was 5 spells and now it has become severely bloated which shouldn’t need to happen
2.) Remove Mindsear or rework it completely. Shadow priests are the ONLY caster class that has to channel their AOE and it’s something that should have been re-vamped or removed long ago (with something else in its place). With the current AOE talents in the DF build shadow priests don’t need Mind Sear any longer. This spell was outdated since Cataclysm. It caused shadow priests to be weaker in high-movement AOE situations such as Mythic plus or high-movement Raid AOE encounters.
3.) Make Shadowy Insight and Surge of Darkness a choice between the two so they don’t collide with each other in the rotation. Currently, these procs collide horribly in the new test builds and this doesn’t make the Shadow Priest fluid and fun to play at all, so removing one insta proc for the other will help Shadow Priests weave in their other spells without forcing them to use other senseless procs.
Overall I can’t say I’m excited for Shadow Priests in DF currently. I am hoping they make a lot of changes to the tree and really go back and see what really made the priest good in previous expansions. It might help them get a handle on things as I really feel they tried to introduce too many new spells/abilities for the Shadow Priest which wasn’t really needed. Though I feel we are ultimately stuck with most of the new Talent tree as it is I feel that they could make some simple changes to make the class more fluid.