There are 2 main problems with SE. The second below is a gamewide issue.
allowing 40 people in made it impossible to make a “hard” raid. Challenging is fine. But truly hard the way it was at the start, where only a few guilds in the world had a shot, is a) a huge math problem and b)ignorant of the fact you can bring more to roll over it. If they maxed flex at 25 this would have been FAR better. The raid currently is in a much better spot math wise than week 1.
way too much power is in the set bonuses. SoD removes most of your value on character, talents, stats, etc, even runes, and places it in your tier. Most of it is cleave based. Most fights are cleave based. So once you actually get gear, the raid becomes a push over. Not because your single target is a lot more (it is) but because you now cleave for nutty amounts. Like quadrouple the damage of week one. A dev might view this as a mechanic to progress (it is) but when loot is really scarce, and then even more so when groups are adding players, it just compounds the issue.
If we have a more balanced game, better math in raid for stamina on bosses, and more power in our actual character rather than our set bonuses, this would have been received a lot better by the community.
This is not a l2P issue. Go look at the wcl prog stats for 20m. The raid is overtuned. There isn’t any logical argument that it is in an ok place given the 20m stats
I’ll agree some small nerfs should be made so more 20 man groups can full clear, but wcl prog shows about 40% of groups that kill the first boss full clear (20 man).
With all of the nerfs and more players getting SE gear, the clear rate has improved a lot and the tuning feels like it’s almost in a great spot.
Unfortunately the average sod player is significantly worse than most people realize. So mechs like drop fire here, don’t miss kick, taunt swap at the right time, keep moving, and spread out are holding back a lot of groups.
Percentage means very little when that 40% is literally 40 groups due to no one actually clearing it. Percentages are incredibly misleading In this regard
It’s not 40 groups. Just go check wcl prog page. 138 guilds have full cleared the raid as a 20 man.
40% clear rate and only 138 guilds full clearing 40 days after raid was launched is not good. But after the nerfs they have made and the SE gear people have got, it’s in a much better spot than the first 2 weeks.
The main hurdle to get over is no longer beat a very tight enrage timer that needs every one of your dps to be SE geared and parsing 95+.
The main hurdle now is drop the fire in the right spot, don’t miss a kick, turn away from blind, pick up adds, etc. Unfortunately for the average sod player, these mechs are just too difficult.
Exactly, and that is the issue. The raid is still overtuned for the average sod player. For most of the playerbase. This is the true marker of whether the raid is overtuned or not. It clearly is. Also, WCL doesn’t even include all the unlogged pug or guild groups that run SE, nor does it include folks that just don’t even try because it is so overtuned at the moment.
To me overtuned means boss have too much hp, do too much damage, and enrage timers are very tight.
The enrage timers are no longer an issue.
The boss hp and outgoing damage probably could be reduced by a small amount still to make it easier for 20 man casual groups.
The mechs are a step above the past sod raids but they’re brain dead easy still. Don’t miss a kick, hit taunt to swap tanks when debuff goes out, drop fire in the correct spot. If your group struggles with these, I think it’s a gut gud issue.
If they remove the drop the fire in the right spot and kill the adds in the fire mech from cald, the fight is a complete brain dead pushover.
Exactly. It IS too hard. It may be easy for you. And congradulations for being a pro gamer. But some of us(like me) have horrible A.D.D. or something similar and it’s hard for us to focus on everything going on in a raid. Last week on Cald, my raid leader was yelling in comms and my cat was being a jerk on my desk. This all led to me missing the blind mechanic. So the boss went and killed like 3-4 of our dps. Which is basically a wipe with how much of a dps check that fight is.
Plus, missing a kick on council is just about a wipe.
Yes, for us casual gamers, these mechanics are too hard if they can ACTUALLY cause a wipe if ONE person doesn’t do something right. I was distracted for literally 1-2 seconds and that was enough to basically wipe my raid. How in anyone’s mind does that feel good?
Do you think removing the blind mech and the fire mech would make the cald fight more enjoyable for the average player?
I do think the raid could be nerfed slightly still but mechs do not need touched. Maybe small reductions to some of them - missing vishas kick does 20% less damage than currently, the cald blind lasts 1-2 seconds less.
Download bigwigs if you don’t use it already. Huge message on your screen “blind in 3…2…1”. You’re complaining you stopped paying attention while tanking a boss, messed up an mech, and caused a wipe.
I’ve argued there is a middle ground between brain dead easy and overtuned mess that SE released in. I think we are very close to that middle ground right now.
Ehh, I’m not advocating for nerfing mechanics. I’m more wanting the raid to actually be tuned for 20 players. Not only the reduction of boss health and dmg output, but also less people in the raid to make mistakes too. Less people in the raid allows better loot distribution too.
I currently have WeakAuras flashing stuff all over my screen. The thing is, there’s constantly stuff flashing all over my screen on every encounter. It’s so cluttered. So sometimes, I miss something. Like, sometimes I can get zoned out or distracted where even something flashing on my screen is ignored. Happens all the time.
I do think one person missing one mechanic should not cause a wipe. Multiple mistakes, yes.
In my experience the raid is actually easier with 20-25 good players vs doing a 35-40 man 1k min gear score pug that isn’t checking logs.
Less people to mess up the mechs and heal.
The personal responsibility mechs for SE are probably too much but you have to respect them.
If the vishas missed kick mech did 30% damage, good groups wouldn’t even assign someone to kick and just heal/prot pot through it.
I did a 32 man pug where we ignore the fire mech on cald. Didn’t kill a single add in the fire, just drop them far away and phase him to ashbringer phase before adds even res. It’s very hard to change these mechs without making them too easy or completely ignorable.
You are advocating for nerfed mechanics because YOU can’t perform the basic mechanics. You admitted it yourself. I have a cat too and I know how to keep him away from my pc. If you can’t multi task then raiding isn’t for you. Raiding isn’t for everyone. It is known that wows endgame is focused on pve raids for the last 20 years. If you guys don’t know what type of game you’re signing up for at this point that’s ON YOU.
No, I’m not great at multitasking. And I never said I was a pro raider. I just think missing one mechanic causing a wipe is bad. That’s so insanely punishing. If people want that type of difficulty, they should be playing Mythic+. Aggrend himself said SoD was catered towards casuals. Missing one mechanic and casuing a wipe is NOT catered towards casuals…
If you missing the blind mechanic caused Caldoran to kill DPS, then I assume you were tanking in which case with all that muh ADD I can’t focus spiel… why are you tanking?
Turning your back for a blind isn’t some mythic mechanic dude. Cal is quite basic. If you get fire drop in designated spot. Turn back for blind. Kill adds in fire. Interrupt/sheep the adds casts. That’s it. That’s the mechanics. That’s not a mythic raid my man.
No one is asking for mechanics to be outright removed. Why do you default to this ridiculous statement? Start using your head and realize that asking for proper tuning is not asking for the fight to be made into a target dummy. Ravager should not 1 tap casters and the tank buster should not essentially require tanks of a certain class.
It’s your own fault if you bring 32 people like you say and the raid is somehow too easy. Bring less people then dork
You have no room to talk you clown we can see you on logs with four tanks and 5 healers (two of them mages) on your cald logs. You aren’t good bro sit down. Literally bringing 6 extra people and twice the tanks/healers while trying to talk down to people shows everyone here you are absolutely just a loser scumbag who should be ignored
