Dererter debuff needs a checkup

Blizz, it feels bad being punished for leaving a group with a hot headed tank who blames me for not being able to heal him through impossibly huge pulls in a normal dungeon. You can’t reliably kick some idiot like that when you solo queue, especially when they’re in a partial premade of their own.

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Sounds like it working correctly.

You left since you dint want to deal with the group as such yes you should have a cool down.

If you can’t kick them means the group agreed with him you solo queuing dosent change that if the group agrees with him that he was correct the dungeon finding is a majority rules system not a special snowflake system. Want better odds to kick come in a group but that it gets super hard to kick as the kick timmer goes up a ton if kicking when in a partly premade. In fact it’s easier to kick when in a solo que.

If the group thinks the pulls are reasonable they are. If they die it’s on the group than they can try to blame you all they want and kick you but in the end of you leave that’s on you. You would have some merit if you complained about getting the debit when kicked in this case but that’s not what happened you said yourself you left. If the pulls are truly not possible you all die and either they correct it or blame you and kick you. In those cases you can claim you where not the issue but since you left you lost that abilty. As you did exactly what the debuff is made to stop leaving the group.

That being said you do get the debuff if kicked pre boss 1 but that’s due to how healers and tanks made groups kick them to avoid the debuff so we only have ourselves to blame for that. Even if you where not part of doing that you are a player none the less as it was the players that caused that.

I actually joined the group mid dungeon. Guy was like ‘I hope this healer actually knows how to heal’, implying the last healer didn’t know what they were doing. Tank then proceeded to pull the room far out of my range, with the group low already low on HP and blamed me. Sorry dude idc what you think but being griefed like that is not cool and a bad player experience.

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Them doing the same to another healer dosent mean much just means there going to keep wasting there own time till they learn that dosent work. If you stuck it out till you killed a boss you would of not got it you left this is fact as such you correctly got it.

As for greifing that is entirely different if you where really being griefed that is a reportable offense and action will be taken if you report it. What you are talking about just pulling big pulls is not greifing thou. If there comments thou where our of line thab it would be but that is up to you to report and action will be taken. This is not releated to if the debuff was added to you correctly or not. Fact is you left the run and as such got the debuff correctly as you should. Just since your a healer you don’t get to instant que in say you don’t like this group and instant leave that is the exaxt reason the debuff was added as tanks and healers did exactly that.

Wasting the time of everyone with the misfortune of queuing into that group sure. It goes both ways. So in the meantime when I submit my ticket I just sit there putting up with the tank’s impossible demands? That wont get addressed in the span of waiting or the debuff.
I’m fine with helping somebody who’s learning how to play the game, a new class or whatever but this guy obviously knew what he was doing. Obviously I’m not putting it into words well enough how much of a prick he was being about it.

Still provides a bad experience man. Besides I’m not asking to remove the debuff, we need a better solution not just to remove this one…

On top of that, if someone is verbally harassing why are you compelled to stay in a group with them? Ignore is there sure but it just ruins the group, opens up for more griefing, etc…

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Him being a prick means exactly that report leave if you want to and take the debuff. Never once said you made the wrong call but fact is the debuff was applied and correct while it vary much should be.

You case is just one example of what can cause the debuff. The debuff is there to prevent players from picking and choosing groups they like vs dislike. As such making them weigh the cost of leaving. This is exactly what it did and is working correctly. You made the right call in your mind to leave that is fine but fact is there is a cost to doing that the debuff. Your case is not a single bit different than me joining seeing a healer in greens and saying I don’t like this and leaving. Both cases we picked to leave neither was more right to leave than the other what matters is the leaving and as such there is a cost.

If the players where needless rude or greifing that is another story that has nothing at all to do with if you should of got the debuff or not. That is something solved via the report function and the block feature that will make you never see them again. The fact of you leaving is all the matters here as the debuff is doing it’s job than making you wiegh if the cost to leave is worth it or not.

If you want a change should be suggesting a change that dose the same end result of making you weigh the cost when leaving that would make you happy that is equal for all players. Something like changing you gold would not do this as players income is not equal.

Never once said it’s not a bad experience said it’s working correctly and should work how it did. It being a bad experience is working correctly it’s meant to be a bad experience to prevent you from leaving to avoid minor bad experience. As such making you weigh what is worse saying there is the debuff. As such for my example of a slightly undergeared healer the bad experience of playing with him is less than the debuff so I don’t leave, your case if you judge the debuff better you leave working as intended.

And I agree it’s working as intended, what the title asked for was a checkup. You know how things can be modified, improved? The one pain point i highlight is that, given a circumstance similar to the one I cited, the current solution punishes the person being griefed and not the griefer. There is room for improvement, hence the request for a checkup.

If there is room for improvement as I said post how. You have not. I see no need to improve it or can think of a way I would improve it that keeps it working as intended.

The debuff has been improved quite a few times over the years to get the current way and hasent been touched for awhile due to it doing the job well fairly and effectively. Even your case it did it job exactly like that quite well and fairly. You picked to leave it vary fairly gave you the debuff as you did pick to leave, as such it did it’s job of making you wiegh the situation vs the debuff and was a low enough punishment to not make you feel you must stay in the toxic environment, while being effective at keeping people from group hoping. As such doing the job quite well and effectivly. If you want a change the first step is suggesting how.

It punishes the person who leaves the group. Playing badly isn’t griefing, it’s just bad play. That possibility is the price of entry to LFD.

You aren’t. You’re free to leave and make a report if you feel it’s been escalated to harassment levels. But the system is automated, so we all accept the possibility of a 30 minute time out, even if the reason for leaving is justified.

There is nothing short of an assigned chaperone to every single dungeon group monitoring the players in real time that would address your issue. I hope you recognize that is a completely unreasonable solution.

This isn’t just about playing badly, it’s more nuanced than that, about purpose and only part of my example.

Again, I can’t really accept the fact the receiving a punishment is a valid out from this. 30 minutes is a long time.

Obviously that’s not reasonable, never asked for that. Really, so you’re a qualified game developer who knows every possible way this could be handled…

…I’m not coming here with an answer but a problem. It doesn’t take a pro chef to tell you food tastes bad, same thing with the experience of dealing with people like this in lfg.

How about this then, what if the timeout stacked the more you left groups? That way if you’re constantly leaving it builds up punishing you harder but if you need to get out of a toxic group you’re not stuck finding something else to do for 30 minutes right out of the gate?

Stacking the punishment doesn’t do the intended result thou. As it doesn’t stop me from as a tank droping a group with a undergeared healer once in a blue moon as a stacking timer if it started low would be more practical than doing the run as cant pull at anywhere near the same speed. Nor dose it stop me from avoiding the instance I don’t like in the 1/8 chance I get it as a low timer is worth avoiding some bad instances like oculus from the time the system was made. As any stacking timer system would have to decay back to base after a few runs or else its just a unreasonable unfair punishment as plans change unexpectly quite often. They should not be punished for a long period due to unexpected plans changing that would only end up in once again people making you kick them vs leaving on there own a MUCH MUCH bigger problem than the issue you had.

Unless the timer started around 20-30 min and built up from there as such your would only make it worse not better for people in your case as your still getting nearly the same starting punishment but it gets worse. I can say for a fact anything less than 20 min will be to little of a starting point as it used to be 15 min and it was not enough to stop the action in question it was made to stop. As such it would be undoing a improvement that already happened.

While a stacking timer causes the FAR worse case of punishing people just since a run is taking longer than planned and as such when you went into the run expecting it to be 20 min but slow tank + undergeared healer and afk people (that dose happen). By leaving to do other things when playing in a tight time slot. People should be able to pick to leave a group without having a lasting punishment that will follow them into diffrent runs and the future if a run takes longer than planed so it will no longer fit into a tight time slot that many causal players face. Remeber casuals make up a large % of the player base so a system that dose not account for them will never work.

The 30 min timer is VASTLY more fair by not punishing people in future runs just since real life happens and plans changed. While being harsh enough to make people wieght the value of leaving vs sticking it out. While being light enough to make it that you feel traped in a toxic group.

In fact if anything a stacking timer would make me feel MORE trapped in a toxic group due to having a LASTING effect on my play experience vs just losing 30 min and its done. Esp as the majority of people leaving a toxic group would not be likely to jump into another group right away from my experience they don’t want to be with more randoms after a bad expience with randoms. In fact from my psyc course in university this is in fact how most humans are. Making the 30 min timer even more so the lesser punishment than a stacking punishment.

As for you coming up with a problem your not. Your claiming its a problem, like your chief example taste is subjective so is this. You claiming the food is bad doesn’t mean it is. Esp if the food is spicy and you just dislike spicy you might say its bad when its accepted as the best food out there. Just like this vary well might be the best possible solution. Unless you can suggest better your problem has little weight to it as its not a problem to be addressed if the best solution is already there.

You obviously care a lot about things staying the way they are. Yes, you are correct it does solve the problem. You can use a sledgehammer to open a watermelon too but there might be a cleaner way. See this is why I didn’t propose a solution. You asked for a solution so I pulled something out of nothing. It’s not my place to provide a solution that’s on Blizz. Obviously it wouldn’t be as simple as just stacking and dropping off. You have to monitor variables such as good behavior, drop frequency, whatever. Regardless this detracts from my point entirely, which is improving things. You just seem to have a strong agenda against change, if it’s not broken why fix it sure - but why not make it better?

My ‘claim’ is a reasonable opinion, albeit anecdotal. Your taste is as valid as my taste as is everyone else’s tastes, so how can we improve something instead of quashing. If you like it the way it is fine, we can agree to disagree. I don’t want people dropping dungeons left, right and center again like before but I also would like the chance to drop a group of a-holes given the choice without screwing myself out of 30mins.

Man these forms can be about as toxic as randos in game sometimes, why can’t people be more positive open to the idea of improvement. Negativity abound smh. Thanks for the novel, it reads like a navy seals copypasta (especially when you start quoting you education on the WoW forms, really? lol. Time and a place man)

Yeah, it really needs to be looked at for healers. Being held hostage trying to heal stupid because there is a 30 minute debuff if you drop group is the pits. And if you try to stick it out, you still get the debuff if they vote kick before a boss is down so you lose not only the half hour, but the time clearing trash.

@Aydenn, I’m not sure that’s the right way to be looking at things. Healing stupid is one thing, people have to learn somehow so bad performance is pretty much expected in LFG at this point. No different than getting paired with any other random team. You shouldn’t drop penalty free just because performance isn’t up to your standards tough you just got a bad group, games have both win and lose states. Could also be any role trapped in that situation really, though sure it may be easier to get blamed as a healer. This has to do more with the attitude of the group: griefing vs bad play. If they’re griefing you and/or acting toxic but wont kick you the current system solves it by penalizing the person who leaves, enabling the griefer to an extent until a ticket (if reported) gets handled.

I wasn’t clear.

If you’re getting blamed for bad play, the 30 minute timer essentially holds you hostage. Either you drop and incur the timer, or have a bad time and often get kicked anyway, incurring the timer if you didn’t get a boss down. And yeah, healers get the blame more often than not. I’ve only been unfairly blamed for wipes and kicked on my healer, never as DPS.

I’m agreeing it needs to be looked at, particularly for healers who tend to get blamed for other people’s bad play.

If you can’t accept this, then you shouldn’t be using LFG. There are other ways of doing group content where there is no debuff for leaving. If you can’t accept the terms of one system then you should use one of the others.

No, but I have a lot of experience with groups of people, and the type of nuance you’re looking for isn’t possible without direct human observation and adjudication. We’re all accepting your claims of griefing, but we only actually have your side of the story. We would need to see chat logs or get testimony from the other four before anyone could legitimately make a judgement on whether your claim has merit.

The system now is very effective because it doesn’t require any judgement. If you leave a group or the majority decides they don’t want you there anymore, you get a debuff. It doesn’t ask who was right, or who was playing better, or anything related to justification. It’s simple and easy, and 30 minutes is a small price to pay to leave a group that is making you miserable.