Demonology problem listing

Once again, due to feedback being completely ignored, another PTR has passed with very little correcting the developers mistakes in regards to Demo, and frankly the warlock as a whole.

Due to PTRs inevitable closure, a copy of the list on the feedback thread there, is being yeeted over here, and on GD for traction.

The main gripes with demo falls under 3 Categories:

  1. Bugs
  • inconsistent shard generation when engaging in combat with Sbolt and Dbolt.

  • Decon not always activating.

  • Tyrant Decon not absorbing health from minions over 40 yards away. (Might be a bug, could be just unintentional design, regardless boss arenas being so large and requiring long treks across it causes huge issues)

  • Dreadstalkers not always getting their chomps off on moving, or awkwardly placed targets.

  • stamina being inconsistently updated, could be instant, could be 5 seconds after you needed it.

  • Casting tyrant as it comes off CD triggering GcD, but not casting tyrant. (Specifically occurs when using wilfreds legendary)

  • LoS requirement between you and imps for base Ui to track the imps summoned, causing staircases to block implosions if imps aren’t where you are.

  • Imps despawn when taking portals within ToP / SoA

  1. Talents:
  • Currently demonology will universally use Decon in all forms of content, and it’s not even close.
  • Nether portals CD change does nothing to solve problems, and instead misaligned it with every cd that it makes use of.
  • Netherportal is outmatched heavily by Decon in ST, even if NP had its CD halved, Decon is way more versatile and has the damage to match.
  • Sacrificial souls might as well not exist in its current state, requires either a heavy flat buff, or rework.
  • Doom theoretically can provide more damage, however its barely, and extremely annoying to use, which is why it will never see play, it ain’t the damage, it’s how it works that is abysmal.
  • Bilescourge bombers, due to its shard cost it will rarely see play, as it is completely counter productive to use.
  1. CDs
  • Demonology cooldowns are all over the place, the spec is just jam packed with misaligned CDs that make the spec feel extremely awkward to play.
  • The NP change only increases the annoyance of this.

Demonology’s rotation is priority, as is pretty much every rdps spec these days. There is just one long CD outside of talents.

Bilescale bombers is fine, but perhaps a bump is in order. If you don’t use the dread doggo talents it’s good dps for AoE.

Nether Portal is incredibly lackluster dps compared to it’s costs. It has a casting time and the player needs to stand completely still for 20 seconds to get maximum value . Which makes it a gamble and during many phases never worth using… The max potential dps would have to be at least doubled and based on Demo’s history I don’t think they’ll ever make the talent worth using as it’s currently coded. Which is a huge shame because it’s one of the most fun dps based talents in the game.


This! The bugs are minor but annoying especially since they’ve been around and reported for ages. The final talent row needs a complete rework. Decon is way too strong and not really fun. I’d like to see the final row be some fun major demons to summon. Doom should be baseline again and the talent should buff it in some way. Regardless of how they need to fix warlock for the next expansion.

Never understood why Bilescourge Bombers and Vile Taint have shard costs while Cataclysm doesn’t.

Yeah, and why does Shadow bolt on affliction don’t generate a soulshard like on Demonology? why does Rain of Fire cost Soul Shards when Blizzard from mages only cost mana? Why is Soul Conduit for Demonology in a different row from Affliction and Destruction?

The answer is simple, for the sake of difference.

Different classes, different spells, different specs, different forms of resource generation/spending, different budgets on spells, resources and cooldowns.

And Bilescourge is currently a lot weaker [ around 6% overall dps less in AOE for my character sims] not because it costs 2 shards, but because it don’t have any borrowed power to scale with, meanwhile DSTR/DL scale with multiple conduits and legendaries.

I could also go on with some “Lore” Answer as well that summoning demons cost Soulshards, but that is a lore bit they break more than once with Cooldowns[hell tyrant generate shards].

Hell, i personally dislike Bilescourge Bombers because its just a re-skinned Rain of Fire and honestly, i would think people would take the 2 soulshard cost in a less negative fashion if it actually summoned a demon [to make it balanced for DeCon sake just give it the same health as 2 imps instead of hp similar to GFG/VF] who you summoned in a place and would deal damage for 8s.


Wow, talk about acting super condescending while also comparing apples and oranges.

Anyway, you could make an argument for Bombers having a cost associated since demo generates resources much more quickly than aff and destro. Obviously I don’t think Cata needs a shard cost, and Vile Taint just doesn’t make sense with current aff design. It felt bad pre-MR nerf because you had to give up an MR cast to use it in AoE, and it feels bad now because StS go brrrr.

I mean, part of that 6% is the shard cost but it’s mostly a QoL gripe for me. With DStrength and Dreadlash I just push the button and AoE happens. With Bombers not only do I have to place the ground-target reticle, but I also have to factor it into my shard expenditure. So I’ll just take Strength in every scenario because it’s easier to use and stronger.

I think the spell feels and sounds great to use, but like you said earlier it just doesn’t synergize with any other part of the spec and, like I said earlier it lacks the QoL of its competitor talents.

All this to say a lot of our talents could use some TLC. When overall spec-design changes and the talents remain mostly untouched, these kinds of issues are bound to crop up.

Thanks for coming to my TED Talk.

BsB biggest problem is that it feels trash to use when actually needing to build and dump implosions, not so much the lower damage.

But this means it’s hit with the double whammy of lower dps, and more annoying to use based of shard consumption. On top of that, it’s a RoF placement leading to uptime loss far easier the Dog builds, or EP.

Just going for the sake of conversation, i don’t necessarily disagree with you on this.

Do you feel like other shard spenders like Dreadstalkers and Vilefiend also give this feeling of impairing the building and dumping of Implosion? because they do cause you to use shards and casts on them before using on Implosion but personally i don’t have this feeling with Dreadstalkers or Vilefiend but do think this happens with Bilescourge.

Yeah, Apples, Oranges, Affliction Spells, Destruction Spells and Demonology spells are all very different from each other you know…like comparing cataclysm, BB and Vile taint shard costs

Dreadstalkers Funnels into tyrants, and dreadlash / FTS, and is more often then not instant cast with shard reduction.

Vilefiend is used exclusively to ramp damage with tyrant, and is a single shard, and does higher damage to priority targets.

BsB has none of those redeeming qualities.

Yes with wilfred you do play VF only on the tyrant, but even in BFA when you did use it on cooldown [as it naturally syncs with tyrant normal CD] i felt like casting VF on AOE [a spell who gave no AOE damage] felt less annoying than using BB who did AOE damage [and similar to you i favored DSTR back then, now i favor Dreadlash]

I do think Soul Shards are just a minor issue with Bilescourge Bombers, because even when Dreadstalkers cost shards i can’t envision it as negatively as BB.

What I liked about Bilescourge bombers, at least in BfA, was its flexibility, as its not tied to the Felguard. So, you could use it as cleave, a finisher for weakened casters that are sitting out of the Felguard’s range or as a pre-strike for when your tank pulls another mob and your Felguard’s charge was on cooldown.

Also, I think it looked cool! :slight_smile:

Yeah I agree with that completely.

I feel we kinda agree on most of this except for

That’s kinda where I have a big problem with BsB. Personally I think it shouldn’t cost shards, but not get any type of damage buffs, it should be its own on demand thing that you pop if you can’t build another implosion.

But this just comes down to individual taste I guess.

No lock buffs or fixing demo buff because you’re being ignored…AGAIN!


Yeah that sounds like warlock treatment

There are a couple of things that I’d like to see:

  • Currently Bilescourge Bombers has no place in this talent row as there is a conduit synergy between Dreadlash (For Carnivorous Stalkers) and Demonic Strength (For Fel Commando). I’d like to see this ability to be replaced with something else that synergize with said conduits.
  • Dread Calling should be a passive talent that makes Call Dreadstalkers instant and have the proc make it free.
  • Power Siphon should just make 3 stacks of Molten Core, on demand. The Demonbolt Damage increase is just icing on the cake. The fact that it costs 2 imps seems rather arbitary.
  • Doom should be baseline. There is at this point no reason this ability is a talent.
  • Burning Rush should be baseline and add a different defensive layer.
  • FTS and Vilefiend have a healthy competition. Soul Strike though? Not so much.
  • GFG should be 1.5 minute instead of 2 minutes. SC would get stronger but GFG is getting stronger also. Making Inner Demons behind. A shard value every 12 seconds that also have a chance to spawn a greater demon seems meh to me. The only current use of Inner Demons is a fodder to make current Power Siphon to enable your Shard of Annihilation Gameplay.
  • NP should be 1.5 minute cooldown. SS should be baseline that only benefits Demonbolt and be replaced with something else.

As for PvP Talents

  • Master Summoner should also make Summon Demonic Tyrant instant. Yes, this means that both Demonic Calling and Master Summoner would both make Call Dreadstalkers instant.
  • Dark Souls (For other two specs), as well as, Shard of Annihilation should not be dispellable. Same thing could be said about freaking Combustion but at least mages have triune.

That’s… all I can think of so far with Demo Bugs as honorable mentions… For every time my Warlock gets off GCD with the Tyrant not being cast or my SB/DB does not generate shards appropriately, a puppy dies in a horrible pain.

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I"d be happy if they just gave us one instant DPS ability. Everything we have has cast bars, except for curses and when something procs. Oh, and make curruption also generate a shard. It’d be nice to include it while casting shadow bolt to build up shards. As it is, getting them is more important for the doggos and imps than corruption is.

The lock pets have unique specialties (ranged dps, melee dps, crowd control, tank, interrupt/dispel) but you’re locked into just 1. Soul Strike and Demonic Strength could be made generic. Soul Strike could easily extended to work with any pet (“Your Primary Demon” strikes blah blah blah). Demonic Strength might require more work but ultimately its an AOE ability (big fireball for imp and AOE crowd control for succubus, explosion of void for blueberry, mass dispel and interrupt for felhunter).

Ultimately I like demo lock as it is, I think I would enjoy it way, way more if using our other pets wasn’t such a downgrade.

Would be fantastic.


Dreadstalkers don’t bother me because they fuel bigger Implosions with Demonic Core procs. If I was playing a build where vilefiend took priority in AoE outside of tyrant ramp then yeah, I would find it kind of annoying.

It’s not that far-fetched to compare these particular talents though, since all three specs utilize the same resource, have similar design when it comes to how that resource is spent (demo less so, I’ll admit), and the talents in question are all quite similar in design themselves. Not quite the same as comparing destro’s 3-shard Rain of Fire to frost mage’s Blizzard, since frost mage gameplay design is not even remotely similar to destro and the two spells are only similar on a surface level but fill very different roles.

I think my main issue with BsB and aff’s VT is that having multiple AoE spenders doesn’t feel great to play. Demo gets away with it a little easier due to the more unique design of its spender gameplay compared to aff and destro, but I would still find it more enjoyable to play if it didn’t have a shard cost on top of its CD. It just feels like unnecessary friction added to your rotation.

Given that conduits will be gone at the end of this expansion, this makes no sense.

Doom could/should replace Corruption for Demonology.

Soulstike has its uses, check out Kalamazi’s mage tower guide for Demo.

I’d rather have it work like Burning Rush allowing us to cast whilst moving, that’d be fun!

Personally the major thing I wish they’d fix is imps disappearing whenever we enter a teleport.