Demonology Discussion

I never understood when someone makes a suggestion to make the class feel better that someone has to scream no you’re wrong. I understand not giving it a massive buff so its top of the boards by a large margin, but making it feel better is the primary concern right now. I would love to be the absolute most populated class right now but not because I do the most damage, but because the flavor and gameplay of the class is insane. Its a dream of course, but discussions can take place to brainstorm exactly what the majority wants and not the small minority who say “its fine” when its very very clearly not.

I see tons of suggestions to just make dreadstalkers instant cast, and I dont see any issue with that at all in today’s WoW, or the nether portal change to make it per shard spent not per instance of shard spent also helps the feel of the class. Not alot of players like hunker down for 30 seconds to do big damage playstyle and that is understandable esspecially with movement intensive fights. Yeah yeah we got mobility through demonic core and dog procs that’s fine, but what about the rest of the fight? The payout is satisfying but we have to work for it harder than any other spec. Stamina and health scaling meme from DeCon is toxic and fits into problematic game design of health = damage.

Point is brainstorming solutions to a problem is great, and the reason why forums and discussions here can take place. But why is it that every single time someone posts a list of suggestions there is just one guy that says “You’re wrong, that would make us OP” with no basis at all. Like making something instant cast just makes it feel better, like what does that save us? 0.7 seconds every cast for that specific spell making it cast time to gcd? I understand the issue for every spell but for one spell that is key in rotation with a 20 second cooldown? C’mon man

The same people that refute suggestions or issues that can be improved upon are the same people that just say “No that makes us OP” That argument has the EXACT SAME FLAWS AS THE SUGGESTION with no evidence or basis to refute except your own brainstorming.

TLDR: I love warlock and wish it was cleaner and more fun to play, and I don’t understand the reason behind people fighting it because they want to stand on a high horse thinking no change is fine because we are fine, when very clearly we are not fine as the third least played spec and only competitive in a raid environment because of health scaling from DeCon. Not to mention the innate problems of DoTs on legs and hunkering down in a PVP environment where a Ret kills you with a 26k final verdict and 16k judgement.

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The issue is that when people who don’t have end game experience don’t have a real understanding of what the actual issues are.

Rogue is a perfect example. I can’t tell you how many sub 200 ilvl rogues with less than 15% haste were complaining about SnD. I kept telling them they needed to actually get some gear and get their haste to 18-20%. Gear and playing end game make a huge difference.

Having ideas and suggestions is fine but a lot of times the suggestions by newer players are just outrageous.

In competitive raiding affliction is always going to be the superior spec due to less hard casted spells.

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This was partially my point, but you are correct. Its sort of a downfall of being a pure DPS class, whereas when the community finds out one is omega OP they just swap that because of all the meta-slaves right now.

It is still important to understand why the suggestions are outrageous, which having end game experience lets you understand but sometimes the new people don’t so they cannot develop a basis to why their change is bad. That being said, have yet to find a viable counter-argument aside from having Blizzard needing to put in effort to changing something to make Master Summoner baseline and slightly rework demonic calling, or the nether portal change I have seen asked for 2 expansions now.

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Demo doesn’t hardcast any more than Affliction due to all the ways to get Demonic Core procs, this myth hasn’t been true since the end of Legion and needs to die.

The problems with demo are very simple:

  1. It’s slightly behind Affliction in overall damage.
  2. There are a few hard fights that significantly favor Affliction (Sire and Sludgefist).
  3. Most Warlocks want to play Affliction and will invent reasons Demo is bad/Affliction is good. You can see this very clearly if you look back to the one time Demo was super OP at 8.1 (can’t link here but just pull up 8.1 on warcraftlogs) . Notice demo is a little over half total Warlock parses but so far ahead in damage it’s absurd. Affliction is nowhere near as far ahead now but makes up 80-90% of Warlocks.

So the only reason to play Demonology is if you are very good at it and like it. Very few fall into that category.

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I disagree some.

Affliction can refresh dots while moving and dealing with mechanics.

If Demo doesn’t have any core procs it’s kind of sol.

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“We aren’t at each other’s throats.”

What is actually happening, is Snozy tries to bully people. He tried to bully me and I stood up for myself. He took that as ego and here we are a week later. Snozy now has a personal problem with me because I stand up to him or sometimes stop him from bullying others like he tried in the beginning of this post. :kissing_heart:

“Ish is just mad he’s not as relevant as he thinks he should be.”

My relevance has 100% nothing to do with it. Like the many unintelligent thinks you do, you’re a huge fan of using fallacy after fallacy. A fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning, or “wrong moves” in the construction of an argument. A fallacious argument may be deceptive by appearing to be better than it really is. I’ve pointed out others, but this time you are using a Straw Man fallacy. A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the proper idea of the argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be “attacking a straw man”.

You have no idea what your issue is with me or why you even comment about me. Once again anyone can simply go read our past arguments from the week and they will always side with me, because it’s logical, consistent and easy to see Snozy is wrong or lying.

“Guy gets mad as soon as you call out his very obvious purchase of a 2400 rbg rating.”

Remember everyone, Snozy factually made this up as a pure lie when he ran out of things to argue over last week. He has no grounds for it, but then got it stuck in his head when he realized I did a race and name change roughly around when I hit 2400. You or anyone can go to my profile and achievements, and verify my RBG rating is 100% organic. Anyone can also go check boosting sites and you will see a site CANT EVEN boost to 2400 in RBGs, so Snozy is doing a 100% lie on complete purpose with hopes of deceiving you, meaning he is a liar and a bad person.

I know your mad because I’m a former Gladiator, former Hero of the Horde, and x3 High Warlord including being a High Warlord right now, but that is your own salty fault because you have ZERO rated on your Warlock and haven’t even attempted PvP. You look at the daunting task of achieving what I have and it upsets you. Sorry kid, not my fault. :sob:

“Just say anything about it and he launches into writing novels trying to justify himself.”

How about you read any of my posts and you will see I write allot. I like to write, have plenty of energy, and enjoy these forums. It has nothing to do with crushing zero rated betas like you. Nice try though :laughing:

“He clearly has no idea what logs are.”

Tell me then? Because I’m calling you out as saying that sentence purely to deceive others. “logs” has nothing to do with the topic, or our argument. Stick to the point you peon.

“The issue is that when people who don’t have end game experience don’t have a real understanding of what the actual issues are.”

Yeah, so you came in to call Tathrisa out for her lack of experience. I noticed, and remembered you giving advice and talking on PvP topics when you have zero Warlock pvp experience, so you called her out like a bully, and I called you out like a bully of a bully.

“Rogue is a perfect example. I can’t tell you how many sub 200 ilvl rogues with less than 15% haste were complaining about SnD. I kept telling them they needed to actually get some gear and get their haste to 18-20%. Gear and playing end game make a huge difference.”

Finally the Rogue gets back in his place and starts talking like a Rogue. :cupid:

It’s cool your back on topic with others Snozy, but you will reply to this, meaning we are not done yet. I’m ready to consume you’re entire day with arguing. You’re simply not intelligent enough, and have to many holes I can poke through, it’s fun to crush you.

Your only defense is against me “Straw Man” is a known fallacy that anyone can google and confirm.

A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy of having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the proper idea of the argument under discussion was not addressed or properly refuted. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be “attacking a straw man”.

You also employ Ad hominem attacks, Argument from authority, the Appeal to Ignorance fallacy, the False Dilemma Fallacy, the list goes on. You are a walking fallacy with no credibility.

I’m going to take a moment and truly try to help you in telling you the mistake with you and I. You are the type that likes to pick on others in order to feel good about yourself. Normally people who are like this will search out other weak people to pray upon. If they mistakenly start picking on a person that they soon realize will cost to much energy, they disengage and look for a weaker minded target. You came across me, doing your thing picking on people and trying to bully, but I stood up and activated to the degree to clearly show you that you have the wrong person. Yet, somehow with you either being naïve or to dense, you didn’t get the clue, so now here you are wasting precious time and energy getting verbally destroyed as you attempt to defend yourself with lies and fallacies.

Write it off as a loss kiddo, you are clearly over your head with me and I’m ready to take it as far as you want to go. You feed me pleasure :heart_eyes:

Tbh I think Demonic Consumption is skewing how good the spec actually is with its health/intellect double dip. Just because Consumption is that good doesn’t mean the spec doesn’t have flaws. Also Demonology certainly needs to cast way more then affliction. Core procs def make it better to cast on the move, but you need imps and dreadstalkers to get those procs in the first place which requires shadow bolts to cast those spells unless you take doom but that takes 18 sec to see results.

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Bro I haven’t lost anything. I write a short sentence here and there and you get triggered and write a novel.

You will never be respected in this forum with your bought 2400 rbg rating.

Don’t worry Ishmaster ive got him for you

“Throws Intro to Psychology book at Snozy”

Take that fiend!

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Lucky for you I took my imp skeet shooting and he just torched the book :joy:

My imp learned Skeet shooting from Lil Jon and the Eastside Boyz.

I feel like my choice of tutors was incorrect.

Oh it is… The good news at least is this system has a bit of a explanation and we aren’t working with “Invisible Imp energy” anymore although a lot of PvPers enjoyed that system over the current.

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I just spit my drink out.

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Yeah the imp energy was so awkward. Oh well hopefully the pvp talent changes help it a bit bc I doubt we will get a Legion 7.2 talent shift. Especially when people say its fine. I guess the oh so “fun” conduit changes will maybe help too.

We all wait to see where they go with pvp talents…

Knowing blizzard they will be like “Yall have 4 talents now… we didn’t fix a thing”

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“Bro I haven’t lost anything. I write a short sentence here and there and you get triggered and write a novel.”

You are delusional and have lost 100% every argument we have had. Keep showing your laziness by writing just a sentence, and keep being triggered because your a low testosterone beta with no drive and I have all the energy in the world to type till my hearts content. My novels don’t make me look bad, they make you look inferior when speaking to me. :muscle:

“You will never be respected in this forum with your 2400 rating that you earned 5 times.”

Fixed. I’ve been a Gladiator, Hero of the Horde, and x3 High Warlord. I’ve been a Gladiator and High Warlord before you even dipped a toe into PvP through the entirety of WoW. You’re mad because I’m superior to you. The funny part is that this isn’t even the point! You are so bad at staying on point that you don’t even know our argument anymore.

“Lucky for you I took my imp skeet shooting and he just torched the book”

We can tell because you sound like an idiot. My original points cannot be attacked by you because I’m simply right, so you go for my online achievements, and now you are going for my IRL intelligence. Continue you show your inferiority both in game and IRL. :rofl:

Again no one cares for your season one glad more than they care about your purchased 2400 rbg rating.

I never questioned your intelligence. I simply think it doesn’t exist.

“Hey I care for your 2400 rbg rating, that’s why I talk about it so much.”

Fixed. You do talk about my RBG rating all the time and for no reason. Every time we speak, you bring it up when it has nothing to do with the point. I’m starting to get a little creeped out at how obsessed you are with my RBG rating.

“I never questioned your intelligence. I simply want to target it and your RBG rating because I have no logical argument so I need fallacies.”

Fixed. Of course you don’t question my intelligence when it’s clear to everyone that I’m much more intelligent than you.

Just like I stated above, your only defense against me is attacks against my RBG rating and intelligence level. You know I’m a RBG player so you want to poke at the aspect of the game I like. You know I’m intelligent so you want to poke at my self worth.

Keep creating this paper trail to prove how stupid you are. Like I’ve said before, if you truly have a learning disability, just tell me and I will disengage out of respect for disabled people. But if you keep replying and acting like you have sound logic then I’m going to keep replying to make you look stupid.

Tell Epícburn that he bought his Gladiator titles. I mean, you “can” for a fact buy Gladiator titles but you “cannot” for a fact my High Warlord titles, so him booting would make more sense and be more realistic. But tell him he bought his Gladiator titles and watch how fast he comes to his own defense. A person coming to their own defense for achievements and things that they have worked hard to earn makes perfect sense and I’m not out of ordinary for defending my hard earned title. You are the one looking stupid for attacking with lies things that don’t matter in order to not focus on the subject at hand.

Why did we start in this forum? You were starting to be a bully and I stopped you. Get over it kid, an adult is now in the room. :bearded_person:

False. You were posting dumb stuff as usual.

The difference between you two is he’s a legit glad versus your purchased 2400 rbg rank.

It gets brought up because you think it gives you arena credibility.

If using a CC to purchase a title is your definition of hard work all the power to you.

No one is agreeing to that. This falls into your bad habit of using “everyone” or “We” in a attempt to have numbers against the person you are having a discussion with and this is your deal bro.

You can buy 2400 in RBG… Its been around in the pvp community forever. RBGs have been a carry bracket forever.

He could say that… I wouldn’t be offended. My records far too consistent but he could still “say” it technically.

Well… now yes.

I swear I told you not to mention me unless I was directly interacting with you on something.

I trust that you can continue this without me and that you have learned your lesson.