I reject your assertion that your emotional attachments are inherently more meaningful than mine because yours were formed in an MMO, especially given that I played Warcraft 3 alongside my first years in WoW.
That’s some Kyalin nonsense.
Some people might tell you that having the High King be a former Death Knight traumatized by his abuse at the hands of another might make for an interesting dynamic, but have you considered that it would be far more “interesting” for him to join the Horde and just be one more stolen Alliance character?
In any case there does need to be justice. Mainly from Sylvanas but in my opinion the horde as well. If not then it really just leaves Teldrassil as an open issue.
None of them get anywhere near enough screen time and Maiev still needs a model update.
Ironically enough if the Forsaken had ended up Alliance they would probably be far more chill since they’d actually be with their own people and have a support network that consists of people with shared histories and experiences rather than one that consists of green aliens from across the ocean who consider them units on a map.
Anduin has never really felt like a Alliance character to me, It always felt like he would be more at home on a neutral faction. He was far too sympathetic to the Horde and willing to brush aside their crimes to really stand for the Alliance.
If he came back to the Alliance he would come back as the same old Holier than thou character and be put right back as High king. If however went Forsaken he could keep at least some of the broodiness that the forsaken have.
If we couldn’t enjoy her while she was alive then why does anyone else get her now? All the Undead Night Elves need to be tossed in bin. Killed off, executed, did the good ol’ Sylvanas leap off a tall building. Whatever. Just get rid of them.
Personally I find the faction barrier downright tiresome at this point. I know it was unreasonable but I was hoping they’d do something to pare that back after Legion, but Blizzard decided to Electric Boogaloo the faction war from MoP and it feels like narratively everything’s worse off than ever before, and it’s hard to imagine things actually improving as far as faction stuff goes.
I wish I could have just broken my character off and go neutral or something.
On the other hand, if we just got more like Legion all we’d get is us following around Alliance-Alliance/Neutral Reps; while Alliance players blame the Horde for “stealing all their stuff”. Rather than seeing it for what it was, Blizz not bothering to write an inclusive story for the Horde … so they tacked us onto an “Alliance” character one instead. Hence all their stuff being made “neutral”.
Well it usually ends with the Horde coming out ahead, especially in Legion’s case. Owning half of the Broken Isles, including the major magical power of the Isles, isn’t exactly a negative.
And with how artificial and inhuman they are … there is nothing of value for me to find on the Alliance. And I mained that Faction through Cata. They are so sheltered and insulated from anything that might even fringe on grey or nuance that its not shocking that they’d become an entirely passive and reactive entity. Allowed no real, or consequential, internal disputes.
Y’know what though? I do enjoy Alexandros in Maldraxxus. He’s been pretty neat so far.
Sigh … look, I love the ARs. They are quite literally the only positive thing we got out of all of BfA (save for Trade Prince Gazlowe … hope they actually do something with him. Travis Willingham is a great VA). And yet still covered them in feces by having every single lead (save Geya’rah, who had no idea what was going on) regret ever joining the Faction … and even compare us to the Legion. Plus, the reality that they were all recruited (save the Vulpera) solely to enhance the pool of souls to die on both sides…
I’m not sure two ARs with some of the most Barebones Customization options available are enough to make up for 4+ years of tarnish or deep neglect that we had to deal with to obtain them. Especially since the Highmountain are getting turned into an accessory race for the Mulgore Branch with Mayla becoming Baine’s waifu. Reminding us all, it should have been the Taunka and Roanoak that was the Tauren AR/Leader (just as the Broken/Akama should have been the Draenei one).
I mean, if you want to be really fair. Its been about 10+ years (since Cata) that the Horde became little more than a Plot-Device to settup new expacs and stories. And the NEs were subsequently turned into the “easy outlet” for that sort of narrative philosophy. Cata was the downswing for a whole lot of things. The beginning of the artificial purity test of the Alliance. The rise of Human Potential. The avoidance to ever develop the WC3 Vision of the Horde, while still using it to save the Faction from WC2 playdates…
Sigh … and yeah. I gave the JunkerGnomes a pass for the Gnome AR because there weren’t really any other alternatives (though Blizz really missed out on how creepy-fun those little Borg could be); as well as the Vulpera for the Goblin (I get it, least played Core race and all that); but it really should have been the Taunka and Broken for the Tauren and Draenei. With the Highmountain and Lightforged being new customization options (especially with what Blizz since making them accessory races to their core race).
We’ve only saved a small portion of the night elf souls, if we don’t free more in future patches it’s safe to assume that the other souls have already been obliterated or forged into weapons which imo, is the worst thing they could’ve done as a resolution for them.
We’ve saved around 10% of them, not counting those that were wiped out in Ashenvale and Darkshore.
Not really, the jailer hasn’t done anything to us in BfA at all, and was only introduced so that Sylvanas could blame a third party for her actions saying that the jailer made her do it.
Sylvanas is the one that sent the souls to the maw knowing what would happen to them, the jailer didn’t kill a single Night Elf.
It’s not safe to assume that at all. There are soul scattered throughout the Maw. We can’t assume what’s going to happen to all of them. We don’t even know the next turn the story is going to take. Furthermore we’ve been freeing souls since the start of the game, so we really don’t know how many we’ve saved.
Sylvanas killed them but it’s the Jailor that is responsible for the Arbiter’s current state and the continued torture of the Kaldorei souls in the Maw. The Jailer didn’t make Sylvanas do anything, she made her choice willingly. To sit here and say that she alone is responsible for the breaking of the machine of death and thereby sending untold numbers of people, not just the Kaldorei, into the Maw is extremely disingenuous and a blatant attempt to ignore what’s happening right in from of you.
Well, the total amount of freed Night Elf souls is around 100. 80-85 in Torghast and around 10-15 as a quest from Ysera. We also know that the Jailer forges all souls into weapons, so if we don’t get to free more, that’s around 10% of Night Elves that died in Teldrassil only.
If Sylvanas didn’t order the genocide of the Night Elves, they wouldn’t be getting tortured and obliterated in the maw right now. She didn’t kill them to send them to a paradise, she killed them to send them to the maw and she knew what would happen to them.
Just like the Horde (even Saurfang) was able to say that Sylvanas made them do everything, Sylvanas could say the same thing about the jailer. This is also why she’ll most likely escape having to answer for her actions, because she can blame it all on the jailer. And that’s why he was introduced as a villain in the first place, to take Sylvanas’ blame.
I didn’t say that, I said that she (and the entire Horde) is responsible for the genocide and near extinction of the Night Elves, their eternal torture in the maw and the obliteration in the maw. She planned through every step of this, and I fail to see how the Jailer is the one to blame for this.
Genocide itself is already bad, but intentionally sending so many people into eternal torture and obliteration should have no excuses.
My point is that the Jailer was only introduced to take the blame for Sylvanas’ actions, yet he didn’t even play a role in BfA at all.
We don’t know that he’s using the the Kaldorei found first those purposes. They could be anyone of the billions that were funneled into the Maw since Legion. And 100 saved is not 10% of those that died on Teldrassil. It was way more than just 1000. At least a large number of them got out.
But if the Jailer hadn’t broken the machine of death, they would even be in the Maw! How are missing this?!?!?!?!
If you think she’d do that you haven’t been paying attention.
But you’re ignoring the massive part he has played in all of this. Without the Jailers actions the Kaldorei would be dead at Sylvanas’ hands but would still where they belong in the Shadowlands, but because of him they are in the Maw.
It wasn’t a near extinction. The army survived and Stormwind is loaded with thousands of survivors plus those that lived in other lands. The Horde is responsible for the genocide but they had no idea about the Maw. Are you trying to imply that they knew about what would happen after their deaths? You can’t hold the living for what happens in the realms of death unless they knew about it, and that was just Sylvanas and Nathanos.
Because you’re overly obsessed with Sylvanas, short-sighted, and refusing to use an ounce of critical thinking. Blaming the Jailer for his part does not shift blame from Sylvanas as they both had a hand in this. She killed them but he set the events in motion to get them to the Maw and their subsequent torture.
We specifically did Ysera’s quest at the place where souls are being forged into weapons, and many were also forged into an Amalgam in Torghast and obliterated after.
But that makes the situation even worse.
I think you are missing the fact that even if they didn’t go to the maw, the genocide of the Night Elves and the destruction of their home was still bad.
Are you seriously saying that if she didn’t send them to the maw, Sylvanas genociding the Night Elves wasn’t evil?
We know that her redemption is coming, and we also know that it’s impossible to justify her actions, so they’ll just shift the blame onto the jailer.
And it would STILL be BAD. Burning thousands alive isn’t okay just because they’d get their rightful afterlife. The suffering and obliteration in the maw is just the cherry on top.
So the few that were left in Valsharah and Hyjal? I can’t think of many other zones with a lot of civilians. Ashenvale, Darkshore and most of Teldrassil was wiped out.
Okay but earlier you said it was all the Jailer’s fault that the Night Elves are in the maw. If Sylvanas only genocided them and didn’t send them to the maw it would’ve been fine. You’re saying the same about the Horde right now, that because they didn’t know about the maw, that they didn’t do anything bad.
Uh I just don’t see how we can shift the blame from Sylvanas to the jailer for what happened to the Night Elves. She commited genocide against them, which is bad already. She intentionally sent them to the maw which is even way way worse. Sure the jailer played his part, but if you’re genuinely saying that Sylvanas didn’t do anything bad to the Night Elves and that it’s all the jailers fault, then I just disagree.
Again: Even if she only commited genocide against the night elves without the maw part, genocide is still bad. And so is the destruction of their zones.
The Jailer is to blame for breaking the machinery of death, sure. But Sylvanas is responsible for sending the Night Elven race to the maw, and she should be held accountable for that.
