And if you want to get +2 or +3?
(won’t even get into your numbers being made up, you won’t get close to chesting a 10 if everyone’s only doing 9k dps).
It’s elitist exactly because you assume people doing low keys only care about completing them and that they are too stupid to utilise strategies that may decrease time taken. You have to time keys to get to higher levels, and that means utilising strategies to do that in the exact same way that people doing higher keys do.
Death skips/Shrouds are not “extreme strategies”. They are used because skipping the trash is easier/faster than killing that trash, and that holds true in a +5 just as much as it does in a +15.
Then it should be in the description for the group listing, or let people know right away upon joining. Nothing wrong with doing death skips or whatever for +2, +3, the conversation is simply about people not thinking for themselves and rather just following what they have seen other people/groups do, and ending up either doing more than necessary or even sabotaging their own run. Nothing more. It happens at low keys and at high keys too. Please stop putting words in people’s mouths though, they literally said none of those of things that you just accused them of. I struggle to comprehend how you are extrapolating these accusations
You don’t need to keep white kniting for Vareesa. He and everyone else is well aware what he’s doing.
Then it should be in the description for the group listing, or let people know right away upon joining.
Every group I’ve ever joined has discussed potential skips at the beginning before the key starts. Obviously you aren’t going to have time to talk about it in chat after the key is put in.
Was helping a group of very new players in a 5 shrine. 10 mins left and just got to bridge. They expressed being sad about probably not timing. I told them how to do the death run and we ended up timing it by 30 seconds. They were so happy and grateful at the end. I always enjoy more options and skillful play decisions (lets face it even death skips require pretty good play, hence why so many of them fail) so amazingly at first instinct i was in agreement but now im not so sure haha <3
1 Like
Tol Dagor cannon section is another area where its far easier/faster to death run than it is to actually kill the trash.
If your group can’t handle the coordination of a death run they aren’t going to be able handle actually using the cannon to kill things either.
The only reason people don’t do this more often is that the boss at the end of the death run is one that a lot of low groups wipe on, so skipping the trash can often backfire. Same goes for Underrot, there’s not much point utilising a shroud or invis at the start in PUGs because there’s no save point past it and if you wipe that effort was wasted.
This isn’t true for the Motherlode or SotS skips though. The Boss after these both gives you a save point and is an easy kill on any affix combination, so skipping those trash is worth it, even in unco-ordinated/bad pugs.
Skips in general shouldn’t be a part of M+, IMO. Death Skips feel bad, but aren’t that much of a problem due to combat rez being somewhat widespread.
Shroud/Shadowmeld skips, on the other hand, need to go. I can’t tell you how many groups simply won’t go without a rogue for shroud.
Design the dungeons without skips. It’s not that hard.
1 Like
Just get rid of shroud shrug problem fixed.
They did remove it and then the playerbase cried so hard that they caved and put it back.
Shroud, gate, and aoe grip all need to go.
Nothing wrong with aoe grip. You still have to fight the mobs. Gateways won’t let you run thru mobs and their usage is HIGHLY situational. Shrouds too good for what it is.
I realize this isn’t a comment about death skipping, but aoe grip is extremely powerful. Being able to put all mobs in one location in 1 gcd is really useful in almost all situations.
I wish this were accurate. Shroud was one of many dozens of abilities pruned going into Legion, and the playerbase cried so hard about all of those skills we lost. As a rogue main, getting Shroud unpruned over all those other skills I valued much more, was kind of like getting the middle finger from Blizzard.
If the forums still existed, I could probably find you the exact thread where everyone was like WTF, Shroud, of all the things???
Anyway… remove it and give back Gouge. Thx blizz.
They do.
My old bookmark still goes there:
You’re the best! Oh no, I fell into a rabbit hole reading them. >.<
Threads about the major problems with pruning, where Shroud is only mentioned because it is disposable:
Pruning threads where most abilities get a shoutout… except Shroud:
I have to stop now or I’ll get sad because pruning ruined my favorite game but! You get the picture. Shroud is garbage and this game is garbage. >:(
LOL high skill cap, that’s hilarious. It’s remarkably easy to pull off a stun rotation when your enemy is just stuck there doing nothing until you’re done.