Death Knight TWW Feedback

Classes Death Knight
122

Why isnt that reflected then? We have access to logs of Wrath Classic, sure its not from the very beginning, but that is the closest thing we can get to information at the moment and diseases were low damage just there for augmentation of other abilities. Cata as well diseases arent even close to being the top.

They also buffed FF and Blood Plague in 3.2. Diseases while being a major part of the class overall, werent top damage dealers.

The breakdown was

auto attacks
garg
pet
death coil
scourge strike
necrosis
blood caked strike
frost fever
death and decay
army of the dead
blood plague
ect


The first 3 damage sources made up like 53% of the total damage and diseases only 5.8%. This is single target by the way.

123

Okay then, I know humoring you is a bad idea, but why not.

1.) I did not say a majority of the damage came from diseases. I said it was a disease spec first, which it was. The damage of Scourge Strike was directly tied to the number of diseases you maintained on the target. This is where your attention was going to be the vast majority of the time. Note that our diseases had to be applied manually, one at a time, as we didn’t have Outbreak back then.

2.) Dark Transformation didn’t exist back then, and neither did Festering Wounds. We did have to take a few steps to make sure Timmy was behaving correctly, but otherwise the ghoul largely took care of itself. As for Gary, there wasn’t much we could do besides let him blast. Honestly kinda glad Gary isn’t meta right now. Screw Gary.

3.) Taken as individual sources, Gary and Timmy did not contribute more damage than all other sources. Even combined, they still accounted for less than half.

1 Like
124

Looks like you are saying its coming from dots and scourge strike to me


And if you mean its just scourge strike damage being amplified by diseases on the target then that was how the Death Knight worked as a whole.

At the start of the fight. If you were focusing on scourge strike damage then you went with a glyph of disease that refreshed your diseases on the target when using pestilence.

So it wasnt a disease spec, diseases were just used as a type of augmentation. Frost also had things in it that amplified the damage of things like Tundra Stalker and Glacier Rot which both amplified damage if a disease was on the target or if FF was on the target.

This is correct, but Ghoul Frenzy did.

Those didnt come in until Legion, and I didnt like them then and I still dont.

You did have to do things for Gary, specifically snapshotting which you would also want to do on diseases.

Yes, they did. Auto attacks where your highest at 20+% and timmy and gary were 11-17%. Scourge strike was like 9-12% of your total damage when you combined both the physical and shadow portions.

And if you combined scourge strike + diseases they did even less damage than the 2 pets combined. 17.83% +14.35% = 32.18% for the pets and 5.49%+2.53%(scourge strike)+3.17%+2.76%=13.95% for scourge strike + diseases. Scourge strike + diseases didnt even do as much as either pet alone.

All damage sources count, but the damage was skewed towards the pets. This is with Shadowmourne as well and no DW shenanigans to put the gargoyle at having like a .42 sec cast time.

I liked the interaction with diseases, having multiples, actually feeling like a Death Knight and not a frost knight, blood knight, or unholy knight, but a Death Knight which this playerbase has tried their damnedest to erode in favor of Frost only having blue abilities, blood only having red and unholy only having green or purple or whatever color they associate it with.

I rather have the old DK back with some modern upgrades. Cleaving Death Coils is pretty cool, non passive wandering plague in the ability epidemic is pretty cool as well. There should be some frost in there as well, doesnt have to be prominent but it should be there just like unholy should be present in frost. I want to be a Death Knight not some shadow of what the class was because “frost and only do frost attacks” nonsense.

Believe it or not, I agree that a lot of this modern stuff isnt that great. Wounds being pseudo combo points, the erosion of diseases and the part they played into just a passive that under certain builds you could just completely ignore.

The game should be fun first and foremost, in my opinion they should get rid of every single addon so people can just focus on beating the content instead of stomping on other players because of some dumb arbitrary rank / score, and they should just focus on fun. Balance is always going to be a thing but whatever Blizzard has been doing as of late is just milking the players of money without actually delivering anything of quality.

I havent purchased TWW for a reason and it all comes down to the shady junk Blizzard is doing and my gametime is completely funded by whales that is going to shove money into Blizzards coffers anyways.

1 Like
125

Psst. That isn’t what that glyph did.

Snapshotting required little to no forethought if you were playing correctly.

No, they did not, as individual sources, do more damage than all other sources combined.

Way to cherrypick. That post is clearly implying Gary’s damage did not outweigh that of all other available sources.

126

Psst
 yes it is

https ://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Disease

127

Mate, you said glyph of pestilence. Nice try. Or I can’t read. Apparently I can’t read today.

128

Bro what the hell is your problem? YOU EVEN QUOTED IT.

129

Man, it’s almost like I admitted I brain farted that in my reply or something.

1 Like
130

No you were looking for a fight.

131

Says the guy that’s constantly on the forums trying to bait people.

On the plus side, math aside, it seems we’re actually largely in agreement regarding how good old DK was.

1 Like
132

You were looking for a fight, this is exactly what im talking about with you guys. Your hateful bias drives your responses. So im not going to try to bridge and gaps anymore like I was trying to do.

133

Okay, I’mma be real. This one got a laugh out of me. Well played, sir or madam.

And you’re
 probably not completely wrong. You have to admit, you do bait a lot. Makes it difficult not to treat everything as bait. So, if you were being genuine here, kudos.

134

Army was also a big bursty CD too if not THE big bursty CD but back then ALL DKs had that.

135

Also THIS!
If you just engaged like this more often in good faith you’d have such a better time here.
Yes, you’ve said you don’t care to be popular but that’s how collective pressure works. You make popularity on the forums applies pressure to Blizzard to implement it.
Sucks that it’s a popularity contest not a meritocracy but that’s the reality and that’s how one has to play.

Like Imagine a reimagining of Pestilence and Wandering plague, maybe apply Wandering to Festering Wounds so they can have some passive AoE spread


1 Like
136

I dont.

Collective pressure is just mob rule, and I dont like mob rule either especially when you know how the brain works when it comes to being in groups. It can lead to some really really bad outcomes.

Onto festering wounds, they are garbage and a shadow of what they were. You were able to pop multiples, but at this point it would be better to just have diseases amplify the strikes again since wounds are just a worse way of doing that.

Do you remember the glyph that split shadowbolt into 3 separate bolts? Looked cool but it was just flat out a dps loss because it split something into equal but smaller parts with their own chance to crit. So it took something from 1 damage source with 2 outcomes to 3 damage sources 4 different outcomes leading to less damage output. Thats what wounds do to Scourge Strike / Clawing.

The attempted goal is the same thing.

Diseases on the target to increase certain strike abilities
Wounds on the target to add another source of damage to certain abilities. Its just worse because if Scourge Strike crits it doesnt mean that the wound would because its a different damage source.

So if you did lets say 1000 damage for ease of the maths and to easily understand and lets say they kept FF and Blood Plague as the standard diseases and never went to this one disease per spec nonsense and each disease increased Scourge Strike by 12.5% resulting in a 25% increase.

Thats 1250 damage from scourge strike then. If it crit then its 2500 damage.

Then you have scourge strike + 1 wound and the wound does 250 damage. So 1000 damage and 250 damage. Thats a total of 1250. But Scourge Strike could crit but the wound not crit so thats 2250 damage. Or the wound could crit and not scourge strike for 1500 damage. That isnt better even though the requirements are essentially the same. Its just worse.

And some people will probably say scourge strike didnt work like that and the diseases added a % of the physical damage as shadow damage. That shadow damage couldnt crit however, but if the physical portion did crit then the shadow damage portion took that into account and did more damage.

Wounds just suck. I dont like them and there was information put out that showed you could use the best build at the time and drop diseases and wounds for an easier playstyle and lose a few % and if you tweaked your build the guy got that % loss down to under 1% damage loss.

Even now Virulent Plague is barely worth applying since it just does 1.4% of your overall damage. At least the old diseases did like 5-7% in single target.

Some people like wounds but really they arent a good mechanic.

I would rather apply diseases with outbreak, have festering scythe to spread them and just cleaving strikes it up with scourge strike and have the old disease interaction with abilities and have that interaction be applied to the entire class again.

Can even have Festering Scythe be a class ability, you know be a Death Knight instead of spec knight.

Well back to Enshrouded, light the last Balefire and probably get obliterated by a dragon fight I havent seen yet.

2 Likes
137

I dislike it too but that’s the world we live in.

And I can certainly agree Festering Wounds really don’t add much. Having Diseases and then being able to make them explode for bonus damage. something needs to be done to add some actual OOMPH back into them.

138

Festering Wounds was neat back when they introduced the mechanic, but nowadays it’s just gimping the spec.

1 Like
139

My biggest issue with TWW is that the damage for Frost is still poor outside of PoF/RM windows. Also, that while it feels amazing when the stars align and you get 3 or 4 RM reapplications, it sometimes feels like that is what the spec is balanced around and that is not the norm.

Also, I really dislike Cleaving Strikes since I feel that it forces Rime, RW, and FSc to not hit very hard to compensate. The same goes for KM Obliterates making FS not hitting hard unless you take Shatter line.

Also not a fan of being able to have BoS and Obliteration in the same build. I feel like this is problematic, but isn’t an issue I comment much on since BoS doesn’t work very well when pugging/soloing.

There are multiple ways these things could be fixed but if I could be so bold as to make a suggestion it would be the following:

  • Remove PoF
    • This combined with Froswhelp’s Aid, Enduring Strength, and Obliteration put far too much power into a 45 second CD. Our DPS will always feel weak outside of this CD as long as it continues to exist.
    • Once PoF is removed, the base damage for every ability can be increased significantly to compensate.
    • Obliteration can be moved to its own CD and the CD can be increased to 1.5-2 minutes, allowing more damage to go into all other ablities since we won’t have 12-18s of KM Obliterates every 45 seconds
  • Remove Cleaving Strikes
    • As long as Cleaving Strikes exist, Rime, RW and FSc have to be weak since so much damage is baked into the damage of Multitarget KM Obliterates

I don’t think this would fix everything and Blizz doesn’t seem to look directly at the class forums, but I think these two main changes, with the appropriate strengthening of the rest of the kit in response. Splitting Obliteration into its own CD with a longer CD would also allow it be more powerful than it currently is. For example, instead of KM making Obliteration deal frost damage, it could be part of the Obliteration CD thus allowing more power to flow back into the rest of the abilities of the kit.

140

Kelliste is STILL here and still annoying everyone? JFC. I’ve had them on ignore since Shadowlands. Stop replying to them. Put them on ignore. Remove their ability to participate in discussion. They don’t know what they’re talking about and they refuse to try and learn.

141

At this point, might as well enjoy the show. :sweat_smile: