Managing Death & Decay for dungeons (Mythic+) is incredibly unfun and frustrating, especially as Frost. You can’t see this faint little red puddle so its not clear when its around, and working arounds its cooldown feels very clunky. As Frost, so much of your damage comes from Pillar of Frost, so its even more annoying when either Death & Decay is not available, the tank moves the mobs out of it, or you don’t notice that you haven’t been in the circle to qualify for the cleave.
Even if the DPS was great, it doesn’t ever feel like you’re doing great damage with it (including the cleave). Compared Evoker shooting Pyres, or a Fury Warrior whirlwinding into Rampage/Execute, etc, you can’t even tell when you’re cleaving as Frost.
This extra little invisible circle is annoying to manage, is difficult to see, and doesn’t feel impactful (even when it is). Please remove the necessity for Death & Decay for Frost, and maybe even Unholy too.
50 Likes
DnD should be removed as an option for Frost DK and not sure about Unholy since I don’t play it, but for Frost you have to go through 3 GC before you can start pumping, it’s so irritating.
Frost Rotation, drop DnD, pop RW, pop AL, now you’ve got Rime… maybe get a proc of KM, build up stacks of Unleashed Frenzy, get targeted by move out mechanic, lose everything…start over…
It’s so ungodly clunky and not rewarding I question if the person that backs the design of them even knows how to play one, Nothign would irritate me more than Blizzard focusing Frost onto BoS. I despise that build it feels not fun for me.
Frost was fun in WoD. Why? Because Obliterate was a buff iirc. I don’t think I ever HAD to drop DnD.
13 Likes
Make it an aura around the player and off GCD or half GCD. Problem fixed
25 Likes
Remorseless winter already acts like an aura version of DnD. Just make it so all dnd effects apply to remorseless winter, namely the cleave, 5% haste, grip of the dead, and 2 charges.
26 Likes
I’ve been playing Frost for M+ and I completely agree with everything you said, by the time I get everything set up, the packs are dead or close to being dead, and even if you do get it set up, something targets the ground right at DnD and then you have to move out of it, losing the cleaving and making that build up worthless. DnD either needs to be made an aura around the DK and make it an oGCD or the affects of DnD need to be applied to Remorseless winter. I would much rather DnD made an oGCD and an aura around the player for all three specs, using it as Unholy is just as annoying as frost, though unholy doesn’t rely on it quite as much as frost for its AoE dmg
8 Likes
I will add onto this with saying that even as a tank, dnd is more annoying than it is fun. there are far more times than i can count to where im forced to move out of my dnd because of void zones, mobs being outright immune to grip and doing an uninterruptable cast, ect. it just isn’t a very fun ability to use, ESPECIALLY sense we need to stand in it to get pretty much anything done.
7 Likes
Yeah its definitely just annoying overall. Going from blood to any other tank makes Death & Decay seem so scuffed when warriors can just whirlwind, monks can just spinning crane kick, or bear’s thrash, etc. This really just feels like a relic of old design and had made me want to stop playing my death knight.
5 Likes
I like what they did with the Ret rework and Consecration where now, if you take a talent (Consecrated Blade,) it causes Blade of Justice to automatically cast Consecration under your target, so we don’t have to hard cast it now, like Prot does. It only drops a Consecration every 10 seconds, too, so it isn’t constantly reapplying it. I’m sure they could pretty easily add something like that, so Frost Strike or Obliterate does the same thing for Death and Decay.
5 Likes
I think making obliteration make dnd an aura around the DK during POF is the best and easiest solution.
Maybe if you are spec’d into the extra dnd it cleaves an additional target or applies razorice or something to it.
Just giving RW 100% uptime and no thought I think would feel bad.
1 Like
Making it an aura would be so much better for all the specs, it sucks to use as unholy as well. Really love this idea.
4 Likes
Or tying it to remorseless winter
That’s far more work than just changing DND to follow you. And 0% chance they’d let Obliterate cleave for 100% of its damage being tied to RW, and at that point they might as well just fix Scythe and make it properly tuned.
2 Likes
Hmm, if gathering storm didn’t exist that would be fine, but it does.
They would have to make it so that the cleave only happens the first “x” seconds after remorseless winter is activated. Otherwise in AOE extending RW for as longs as possible every pack would be top priority over everything else to ensure your oblits are always cleaving.
It would also mean holding RW in some cases to ensure you go into your POF window with it rolling or delaying POF which would feel bad.
1 Like
Straight aura might be a little too easy/dangerous scaling wise. Maybe fine tune it in a way where you can choose reduced damage and larger target cap. Or keep it how it is or even just 2 extra mob cleave instead of 3 via aura/presence/improved blood, frost unholy presence.
1 Like
That’s true.
Mechanically and thematically, DND is just not right for frost though. I will leave up to the game designers to figure out how to make it work.
It’s especially problematic in PVP and the issue is compounded with chillstreak and then further compounded by needing all damage to happen within a perfectly set up burst window where there are at least two enemies stuck close together in DND.
I really hope the PvP changes will be enough to change that, making it play more like it did in Legion.
100% agree.
For me personally I’d love to see obliteration reworked to something like for the next 20 seconds your next 5 obliterates cleave to 3 additional targets and your next 5 rimes/rune spenders generate KM.
Or alternatively an ability you can press that increases your range for a certain amount of time so if you do have to run out with a mechanic your damage doesn’t drop off entirely.
I’m maining hpal this tier and play Ret in keys sometimes when not healing. Rets ability to do damage while away from a target is insanely good. Almost feels like a range class. Night and day difference from frost DK that drops off considerably when having to move away from a target.
3 Likes
Hard agree. DnD as our cleave mechanic has always felt incredibly clunky, and downright punishing on most M+ weeks with tanks having to constantly move mobs around. When all the planets and stars align and we are able to line everything up perfectly it’s fantastic, absolutely. But in real time, in actual gameplay, that doesn’t happen as often or as easy as it comes for most other dps classes.
I like the idea of them linking DnD to another cooldown or skill, similar to what ret got with consecration, though maybe not a direct copy/paste. Make DnD do frost damage and drop it around us when we use X ability maybe?
Then there is frostscythe. I mean, if they are so hell-bent on locking our cleave to DnD, why does frostscythe still exist at all? It either needs to be buffed to be worth taking, or just flat out removed as it hasn’t been a viable choice for a long time now.
The buffs we got earlier, with baking in Might of the Frozen Wastes and all that jazz, was a nice first step, but the class definitely still needs some help mechanically.
3 Likes
D&D needs to go, it’s a relic of another era when it comes to abilities at this point. Linkin a cleave to Transformation for unholy and pillar for frost makes more sense at this point.
6 Likes
No, it would be sufficient if they made it an aura effect. Would also fit Unholy thematically pretty well
2 Likes
