So this is an expected addition to the forums: Anyone who suggests that a previous way of doing things worked better than anything current is relegated to responses of “Classic is that way.”
This is going to be a great atmosphere!
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What about Diablo 3 system instead?
https://us.diablo3.com/en/calculator/barbarian
You learn your spells/skills as you level and eventually learn a mod to it (runes) and then choose them like you do talents today (including restrictions on where/how you change them)?
Why? Because at max level there was no choice. Talent trees make sense while leveling. But at max level you just chose the cookie cutter talents.
No, unlike others I have accepted the fact that Blizzard is going their one way with the game and is not going back. I am waiting for Classic as well while playing retail. I don’t hate retail they both have pros and cons. I just won’t try to change current WoW for something we are going to get out of Classic.
I never liked the old talent system. I’m happy with what we have.
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this. the old system was far more cookie cutter than the new system, if you wanted to be any good.
there was always that guy who had some bizarre hybrid build who did absolute garbage damage, I suppose. But the playerbase as a whole was, I think, far less interested in absolute class balance as they are now.
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There’s no we. Speak for yourself. The old system sucked and I’m glad it’s gone and hope it never comes back.
There was nothing interesting about carrying someone who thought their not so clever build was clever and good. There was also nothing interesting about going to icy veins or some other website to copy a build.
No it wasn’t. 5% to wand damage did nothing to improve my characters power. 1% - 5% did nothing to make my character feel powerful.
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Problem with adjusting talents and balancing classes and specs is .
You can’t really balance anything. Not every player is the same not every toon and their class/spec is the same. People play differently from one another . Some are better then others in some aspects of play then others ,where as others are better in other aspects.
I have no problem with that . We are not all equal in how we play and how we play is how we define our characters. People need to get away from this everything should be balanced and equal in the game and even in real life.
Give us the resources to make changes to talents like they have been but open the talents to all specs for people to use and let them build the class the way they want. Some will make more powerful versions then others and over time the players with weaker toons will learn what works best for them through trial and error.
Balance is not something that can be forced , it is something we as players have to achieve ourselves and the only balance there is in the game is finding what works best for us is finding what play style makes the game more enjoyable.
I think an additional problematic aspect of the current talent system is that it is one that is really designed for a game where the level cap is lower.
So not only do you have the “dead talents” as you put it, you also have a system stretched too thin…and even then it can’t cover the entire leveling experience.
The artifact system worked as a prototype for what could be an alternative advancement system…but it ran afoul of another issue Blizzard has long had (and is hilariously only just now acknowledging), the tendency to toss out systems/most of a system after an expansion.
The pushing for new and shiny so often at the expense of the established working systems has hurt this game more than it has helped.
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Because the talent trees were a bad mechanic (“the 1 build phenomenon”, “must have” talents) and simply not scalable. Imaging what the tree would look like if we were still using them like were were in Vanilla -> BC -> Wrath. We’d have, like, 180ish talents to pick from. Folks cry about balance today, can you imagine it with 180 talents?
Don’t forget, they gutted them in Cata. (Too much consternation).
The pain of the talent system doesn’t justify the work to enable a few edge case builds, much less over time.
So now we have happy fun time talents.
Devs like the system we’ve got. They like pruning away baseline stuff and forcing us to choose between multiple indispensible options.
I do understand why the developers want to make the game more accessible to more people - to simplify the game so anyone, anywhere can effectively play at any time. I feel however that since they started doing this, since Wrath, that it has been detrimental to the enjoyment of the game. Blizzard wants to reach the most people yet we probably have around the same anount if not less subscibers than the days of WOD. I believe there has to be a balance between character progression, power and choice and right now there are a lot of peope unhappy with these fundemental RPG aspects.
I am hyped about the heart changes coming in 8.2. Looks like another step into the right direction.
You mean the illusion of all of the above? I wouldn’t call the ability to make a non viable talent build “choice”, i would call it unneeded complexity. If I’m going to pick the same talents as everyone else anyway why bother having 20+ more talents when i can get the same result with 6 or 7?
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Essentially, our best chance of getting some old systems back in Modern WoW is for Classic to do really well, enough for Ion’s overlords to actually tell him to start doing things like that.
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I’m not trying to make modern WOW exactly like Classic. However I have no doubt Classic will have great success due to some of the systems and mechanics and through that success perhaps retail will be influenced in some ways.
What if they were to do a compromise.
Instead of the old bloated trees we could choose a talent at each lvl but from only one spec for the level but the next level you could choose from another spec .
Example : level 15 being a priest you pick a holy talent then at 30 you choose a shadow talent.
You would still be limited to how many times a talent is available but you would have more choice in how you play and if they keep the tomes for changes then would something like that work?
I’m a fan of Path of Exile and their passive tree. It may be crazily expansive but it would be so cool to see a lesser version of it in WOW. Also the passive points in POE are accumulated from leveling up in addition to completing certain quests. It’s very interesting and the tree itself is complex as hell.