Why? I do not understand? Isn’t Mue’zalla still there? Then he was the loa of death in ancient times before Bwonsamdi’s ascension, and where is it a downgrade when a Mortal becomes a loa?
Is Vol’jin now a downgrade?
Um, Bwonsamdi has a boss, until Shadowlands, which he had all the time, the Other Side is not Bwonsamdi’s domain, but his boss’s domain, which he then takes over.
Mueh’zala being the main lord of afterlife completely screws over the establisehd troll afterlife description and previous interactions. But I don’t expect it from you to understand it.
And we have example in Zanza he is called “Lesser Loa”.
no, Mueh’zala was his boss, all the time, until Shadowlands, he even refference about him. Mueh’zala is his boss, until we defeat him.
But Lesser Loa is related to the number of followers, not directly to his power. If Zanza had been, let’s say, the highest loa, even when he became immortal loa, than loa of kings, he would not be a “lesser loa” despite his origin.
This status says nothing about his power, only about his influence in the troll religion.
Dude do you understand that This newest lore retcons everything which was established so far?
Did you even read the feedback which was posted on beta forums?
As I said above- did you even read the feedback above?
Because you have everything layed out there. I am done taling with you because it’s like talking to a wall.
We have known since BFA that Bwonsamdi has a boss, so it is not a “Retcon”, it just reveals who it is.
I don’t read all the feedback, no, but this particular detail is not inconsistent or inconsequence at first, one Trollloa stands above another Trollloa, so, well, what’s the big deal. And the only one who sees a wall is you.
Are you afraid that they will treat bwonsamdi like a second fiddle because of that or that he is not so powerful after all?
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/de-other-side-feedback/560546
you mean this thread? So…i could post something…but at least…stop your fandom, then we are able to talk, its not “against trolls” here, i try to talk on neutral ground…we could speak about every point of that feedback.
I don’t really consider Bwonsamdi to be a Wild God tbh. He’s not really a Druidic God either since he’s not an animal. But enough of that talk for now, since it’s kind of starting to upset others 
Aaaanyways, shouldn’t we go back to talking about the dungeon, not Bwonsamdi entirely?
In my eyes: Talking about the protagonists and antagonists of the other side is certainly part of the conversation about the other side from a lore perspective. Because the gnomes in it really don’t interest me that much.
I’m not talking about the fact that he has a boss, but WHO that boss is, and Mueh’zala makes no sense.
I am irritated because you want to undo all the established lore because NPC might’ve lie at one thing, if he lied at the predating trolls, then everything he sais might be a lie too, including the fact that he has boss. That is the definition of cherrypicking.
I see it differently, we know very little about the troll empire, we just know certain moments, but we don’t know the history of religions. As I said, it becomes credible the moment Mueh’Zala was simply worshipped by all the ancient tribes. It wouldn’t be a change of history in the true sense if you’re honest, because we wouldn’t know when that happened, if it happened during the War of the Sands, or before the blood plague? I mean these are 16-17000 years before the first war, events where in real time civilization did not even really exist. If because of the blood plague most tribes turned away from their god of death because he didn’t protect them from Hakkar…or he refused to help them, there are many reasons why religions could have fallen from grace, and Bwonsamdi, who became a legend as a follower of Mueh’zala, an object of worship, would it really be so illogical? Not to mention the fan glasses?
Bwonsamdi is a Trixxer, maybe they are half truths, maybe lies, he is not someone you can trust through and through, that would be the message that follows in my eyes. Actually a cool deity, I like bwonsamdi as he is, and in my eyes he doesn’t lose a spark of coolness if he hasn’t always been a loa.
and also that it throws off “the whole story”, I don’t think you can say that either.
Look, I felt the same way back when they rewrote WOTA, originally a really awesome story, and suddenly it felt trivialized because so many races were suddenly part of it, but in the end it’s not illogical that in an all-destroying legion invasion other races are also affected.
Or that some core issues were taken away from the elves, or split up. What I’m trying to say is: We don’t know anything about its beginnings, you say it would change everything, but it wouldn’t really change anything, because we don’t know anything about this long time ago history at the moment. For example, the original lore that the elves are the first and oldest race on Azeroth, the birthplace of civilization. That was given to the Zandalari, for example, but it was originally written differently, that was done to give the trolls a “place” in history.
Now Mueh’zella, too, needs “place” in history.
Yeah I think Mueh’zala would have been a more epic 1st raid final boss than Denathrius.
Fun fact, Baron Samedi of Haitian Vodou (from whom Bwonsamdi takes so much obvious influence) is also well known for being very flirtatious, with a fondness for innuendo and dirty jokes. Especially in regards to other Lwa.
Not a quality you really ever see carried over into portrayals in pop culture.
Well, Blizzard did their ‘Homework’ then lol 
Because the players are the biggest deus ex machina in the game by design.
That doesn’t change anything else I’ve stated about his threat level to the world until post-Cataclysm where he gets ignored and then randomly thrown into a dungeon as a boss and killed again.
I’d ignore Zahir on the topic of Troll lore.
He doesn’t have much of a vested interest in it and is seeming looking to constantly downgrade it.
Bwonsamdi is on record as predating Trollkind by his words, which is all we have on the matter. While it is true he COULD be lying, he gains nothing for it when other Loa such as Zanza are pretty upfront with their origins and still garner great respect. It’s also worth nothing Bwonsamdi tells Mueh’zala that he never cared for “his” people, not “my” or “our”. He’s clearly pointing to a specific people, who are likely the Sandfury in this scenario instead of all of Trollkind. It’s a stupid distinction that makes no sense and only belittles the establishment of current Troll lore.
On the flip-side, I think it’s spot-on that Bwonsamdi is discussing his various flings. Given Eyir’s opinion on him, that was likely one of them. Bwon with a Val’kyr is a hilarious thought.
No you don’t in fact you have never spoke at any neutral ground and your whole historial in posting is about how the elves should be the best at everything.
Heck I saw your rant about how unfair it was for the Trolls to have a deity that could surpass the Arbirter despite everyone showed you how there were different to enter the afterlife with explicit in-game evidence. If you are going to post nonsensical stuff and hook into the headcanons of others about how trolls are dirt, then at the very least have the decency to be honest when you post it instead of using a false mask of neutrality.
Besides Mueh’zela isn’t the one that created the other side pocket dimension or else why Hakkar has his own domain and doesn’t give him tribute or even interact with him? Use that little elfie heads of yours unlike Sylvanas slidding into the big and long sword of Arthas or when she burned a giant tree.
If he was truly a troll in his past life and a deity born in Azeroth, then he wouldn’t do deals with beings in the dark beyond aka being know in another planets. That alone is confirmation he is an entity older than Trolls and maybe even older than Azeroth
You realize that he isn’t a elf right wow isn’t real lol
Stop following me around!
We know, however, that the Zandalari are the oldest and most influential of all troll tribes and it was never mentioned that they worshipped Mueh’zala at any point. It’s possible, of course, but nowhere near logically comprehensible. For all we know, the Farraki were the only ones. So “all troll tribes worshipped Mueh’zala at some point” would be a clear retcon.
Agree on this. I don’t really care if he was mortal once, and just competent or clever enough to ascend to one of the mightiest loa.
But that’s not the problem. Nor is his rivalry with Mueh’zala over the realm of death, which could indeed be pretty cool.
The problem, as I see it, and what would really be lore breaking, is that Mueh’zala being Bwon’s boss all the time would contradict all former information about troll afterlife. Like in Shadows of the Horde when Vol’jin talks to his father on the Other Side, and there is no mention of Mueh’zala at all.
And of course also the implication that troll afterlife isn’t as good as expected, and that Bwon apparently had no idea what Mueh’zala was doing with all the troll souls in his care until lately.
I think you will understand that learning troll souls have been fed to the Jailer to empower him- and been devoured by Mueh’zala himself all the time before- is quite the letdown.
I’d personally prefer if he gained hatred the old fashioned way - that he simply trolled her.
Think of it- Vrykul and Valkyr are so obnoxiously pompous that meeting someone who mocks their way to be would definitely ruffle their feathers.
Which I’d find even more hilarious.