Corrected that for you. Not only that she employed the Blight in direct contradicton to Garoosh’s orders, who in fairness was most likely setting up the Forsaken to be decimated by the Gilneans.
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The blood elves of all people have no right to complain when someone uses powers with bad connotations, powers beyond their ken and whatever the call.
The topics of
-drained M’uru until it became a walking black hole
-general use of fel
-almost let Kil’Jaeden get summoned into the world
certainly spring to mind, and they only ever stopped doing all of the above when the situation became so dire they needed to get help or else everyone dies. More recently they continued to follow sylvanas despite the obvioust similarities to arthas until -again- the sutuation became untenable
To be fair.
- General use of Fel is something every race that employees warlocks use. If you mean the giant crystals, those apparently flip flop between being fel crystals to just weird arcane crystals from Outland.
- It was Kael’thas that tried to summon Kil’jaeden. Him and his felbloods who by this point were decidedly not working in Silvermoon’s best interest.
That said, the drawing of the line of Dar’Khan’s research really just a lore excuse given to justify why the void elves, despite their loyalty to Silvermoon, are no longer affiliated with the city. The line drawn is purely for jolly ol’ faction rivalry and attempting to justify it further than what Blizzard gave is a exercise in madness.
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Yes, please use the blood elves’ past mistakes—which we are led to believe they actually learned from—as evidence of their supposed “hypocrisy.”
You’re also ignoring the fact that blood elf society all throughout The Burning Crusade was essentially split via a civil war, which took place on two separate planets. Literally everything you cite above was the result of Kael’thas making mistakes, rather than blood elf society as a whole.
And even then, a proper study of Kael’thas’ character would reveal that he was acting in (what he viewed as) the best interests of his people, something that he even begins to question himself now, in Revendreth.
Umbric initially claimed to be doing the same, but then turned around said, “Nah. The Horde will use us. They don’t deserve this power. For the Alliance!”
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Yes, and the entiretiy of blood elves continued to follow Kael’thas until he screwed them over and was about to screw the rest of azeroth over as well, only then they decided that maybe morals and restraints exist for a reason- not exactly disproving my point there.
They basically learned nothing. If bfa shows us anything is that they’re perfectly happy with allies and leaders who wield dangerous powers/weapons so long as they’re pointed at the other guy. And again, the blood elves only started coming around to the Saurfang train when Sylvanas started directing her nastiness inwards towards the Horde with the Baine fiasco
I feel like the reason they left the Alliance was always flimsy. Just because Garithos the last official who had rallied the survivors remaining in Lordaeron into an army was racist doesn’t mean the Alliance at large was or is. In fact, Alleria Windrunner has risen to the highest echelons of powers and her elves are at best accepted as key members in the Fourth War and at worse tolerated by the Holy devout.
Then you have Vareessa Windrunner and her Silver Covenant which is accepted and are key members within the Dalaranian Alliance faction they are members of SI:7 and the 7th Legion showing that elves are not only accepted, but keep up barriers for humans as they march to war and then help shower fire and ice upon them.
This idea that Thalassian elves are hated and discriminated against is overblown considering the thousands of years of history and interaction with the human kingdoms. Even in BC we see protestors supporting the Alliance. It looks like even in Quel’Thelas Alliance rogues and spies are known and seen as an open secret. Blood elves even know should Mathias Shaw be discovered there that while the conversation would be awkward it would be as bad as say in Ogrimmar. The blood elves seem to have quite a number of sympathizers in their faction which tacitly relate more to the Alliance.
I remember reading a short story where a Blood Elf husband who loved his estranged High Elf wife helped Alliance characters out of his love for his wife on a boat helping these other characters escape, and I remember the story was quite endearing and shows that many Blood Elves have connections within the Alliance going back centuries regardless their newfound membership in the Horde it’s a blip in time for an elf. What loyalties can that garner compared to the history they have with the Alliance races?
This we can agree on!
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Your point is disproven by the fact that a majority of the Horde members who actually struck down Kael’thas at Tempest Keep were blood elves themselves, having come from Azeroth in search of Kael’thas. There’s literally a faction in Netherstorm that’s at war with Kael’thas’ forces; lore-wise, they didn’t even know Kael’thas had aligned with Kil’jaeden until about halfway through the Outland campaign.
But sure, keep throwing around generalizations to hide your ignorance of the lore.
Sure, that’s why Lor’themar Theron actually contemplated returning the blood elves to the Alliance during Mists of Pandaria, and why he—along with Thalyssra and Baine—is one of the main Horde leaders to take a stand against Sylvanas.
/s
If we’re being honest, a lot of Battle for Azeroth just comes down to bad/unbelievable writing—for comparison, see the example above from Mists.
Well, a couple things need to be understood here:
-
The Alliance (of Lordaeron) was essentially in shambles at the time of The Frozen Throne. Arthas had utterly destroyed Lordaeron, Dalaran, and a large portion of Quel’Thalas. Stormwind and Ironforge were so far south that they could basically do jack all, and Gnomeragan was busy dealing with the trogg situation. Garithos was essentially the leader of the Alliance at the time, given the situation.
-
The blood elves we see in that game were specifically those under Kael’thas’ command; fast-forward a few years or so, and we see Lor’themar taking charge and officially having the blood elves join the Horde—not to spite the Alliance, mind you, but more largely because of the Sin’dorei’s relationship with Sylvanas and the Forsaken, particularly with how the Forsaken help them defeat Dar’Khan Drathir in the Ghostlands.
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Again, the one time Lor’themar did try to have the blood elves rejoin the Alliance…the Purge of Dalaran happened.
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Okay, i grant you that the Scryers are clean. But the ones in Quelthalas most definitely are not, specially since even after it was revealed Kaelthas was with the legion he was still getting recruits
Still canon though. That it proves my point is just a happy coincidence 
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So, again:
Not every blood elf that opposed Kael’thas was a Scryer. The Scryers were literally the elves that had been with Kael’thas under Illidan, and broke ranks. They were already on Outland to begin with.
Many of the Horde forces, the player character included, contained blood elves that came to Outland hoping to reunite with Kael’thas, discovered his treachery, and proceeded to bring him to justice on orders from Lor’themar. Like I said, it was a civil war spanning two separate planets.
It’s also still canon that the Sin’dorei and the Nightborne were effectively front and center of the resistance movement at Orgrimmar, as compared to, say, the Mag’har Orcs and Forsaken.
Should they have made their move sooner? Absolutely; BfA was a complete disgrace when it came to the Horde.
But when they did make their move, it was Lor’themar and Thalyssra who ended up getting the most screentime—even now, with the Horde Council, we see Lor’themar taking on more leadership duties.
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See, if the Scryers had been the ones that told comrade Umbric to take a hike id totally accept it. As the Scryers actually have both moral and practical grounds to stand on.
but
Yes, and before that they were perfectly happy with all the stuff he did. And even then it was only after got beaten in Tempest Keep, and he came back to steal back M’uru that the Blood Knights (who had the approval of the entire horde basically since they were too useful to pass up) actually remembered that they’re paladins
Again, not when they should have. But literally when they had no other choice
Yeah, when the stuff with Baine started to roll around. Ergo, when Sylvanas nastiness turned inwards. (In fact, didnt Lorthemar say something to the effect of that even though he followed Sylvanas both in peace and war Baine was goint to far?)
Just like with Kaelthas in that regard. Seems to me less bad writing and more of a pattern
So, re-quoting the part that you glossed over:
You’re acting as if every blood elf back in Quel’Thalas had full knowledge that Kael’thas had allied with a demon hunter and was now part of a planet-wide empire of war against the Burning Legion.
Which is a pretty ridiculous assumption, to say the least.
At most, they knew their prince had gone off to some alien planet—the starting questgiver literally tells new blood elves, “The Outland awaits us!”—and even the blood elf pilgrims at the Horde base in Hellfire Peninsula (Thrallmar?) view Outland as a sort of “Promised Land” of magic, something that one of the orc questgivers also notes.
So it’s a major generalization to claim that every single blood elf knew what Kael’thas was up to, when their actual thinking was more along the lines of, “Oh, our prince has found an alien planet ripe with magic to cure our addiction! Our people are saved!”
I’d ask you to provide the exact quote, if that is indeed the case. I do know his actual line after the quest “A Display of Power” (where Sylvanas has Baine imprisoned) is:
I cannot fault Baine’s heart, even if his actions were drastic. Through this act of defiance, he exposed a schism in the Horde that has been growing since the attack on Teldrassil. I fear that by openly opposing Sylvanas, he may have put his own people at risk. As mine would be, were I to side with him. These are perilous times. We must be cautious… and deliberate.
So this isn’t necessarily Lor’themar saying Baine was wrong; this is him as the ranger lord saying, “If we’re going to overthrow another Warchief, we have to be careful and calculating about this.”
Which is a pretty realistic mindset when you’re talking about possibly rebelling against a pseudo-monarch figure. Garona says something very similar:
Baine’s mistake wasn’t acting against Sylvanas. His mistake was acting too soon.
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Nope. Chronicles 3 actually retconned in the Horde’s blood elves as having been the ones who waged war against Kael in Netherstorm, precisely because of the actions you’re somehow convinced they were supporting from the other side of the solar system.
Many were gathering in the Netherstorm, particularly the Horde’s blood elves. In Shattrath, they had learned about Kael’thas Sunstrider’s fate. It was worse than they’d expected. News had spread that their prince had pledged himself to the Burning Legion.
Some blood elves did not believe these stories. At least, not at first. When they ventured to the Netherstorm, they saw the truth with their own eyes. Kael’thas had embraced fel magic and become the Legion’s pawn. He was their prince no more. Word of this discovery reached Lor’themar Theron and the other ranking elves in Quel’Thalas. The news broke their hearts, but they came to a consensus. Kael’thas was lost. It was their duty to vanquish him and end his treachery.
The Scryers were directly party to a hell of a lot more of Kael’s shenanigans on Outland than Silvermoon’s insulated faction ever was.
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Wait so they flipped them around- What purpose did that serve? How does that even work with all the stuff with M’uuru and the shattered sun offensive only happening after the fact?
The Forsaken beg to point out their own shredded Alliance tabards. Lordaeron was once Capital City of the original iteration of the Alliance.
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That’s true, but it should also be pointed out that the Forsaken are…well, undead. Technically-speaking, they’re a different race altogether, being no longer human.
Contrast that with the blood elves, who not only served the Alliance in life, but also have the memory of doing so, which many Forsaken no longer possess, either.
So the prospect of joining the Alliance “again” does mean something altogether different to the blood elves, who do have long memories, vs. the Forsaken, who don’t necessarily remember that far back.
As per canon Sylvanas did her dammnest to keep them from putting 2 and 2 together and remembering that, up to and including 1984 stuff in that book so i dont think they really count
Huh? I might be misreading but I don’t recall anything about forsaken having lost their memories from when they were human. Where is this stated?
I’d imagine it would normally be a lot harder for forsaken to re-integrate just based on their physical appearance, however. Elves haven’t really changed beyond eye color, and not even that’s a given anymore.
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All of this talk about the blood elves’ past makes me wish we doubled down on fel magic.
Well, it’s not exactly a “set-in-stone” rule, and obviously would vary between undead. But using the following:
Some of those that freed themselves from the Lich King’s grasp are tormented by memories of the unspeakable horrors that they committed as mindless Scourge agents and are driven into madness or consumed by regret, whereas others embrace their new condition and may go on to indulge in their vile vices. Others don’t even remember their time as a mindless slave of the Scourge and so bear no emotional trauma from it at all.
WoWpedia, “Undead”: “Nature of undeath”
So it’s not unreasonable to assume that—much like with undead being unable/finding it difficult to experience positive emotions—a lot of Forsaken’s “first” memories may be the moment Arthas raised their corpses, or in the case of newer Forsaken, the moment they climbed out of the grave and beheld their first val’kyr.
Meaning, again, serving Arthas—and later Sylvanas—would have been all they knew or could remember.
Anything to do with serving as soldiers of the Alliance under Terenas or Arthas would likely only come as brief flashes, at most.
I did not quite understand. There is nothing written there about the fact that they do not remember their life? Only that they may not remember the times under the Lich King.
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