Daily death by aggro

I want to know what is being done about the warrior agro issues especially as fury… this issue is long overdue to be changed and looked at so us fury warriors can stop twiddling our thumbs the first 5 seconds of a pull in fear of ripping agro immediately. We have zero true defensives as fury other than a heal that requires us to damage further to be healed or burn all rage for minimal shield that consumes most of you primary damage of rampage. Easy fix, increase agro threat on all tank abilities and let me play my class

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The fact that dps think waiting 5 seconds for tank to establish threat is a problem to be solved demonstrates the larger problem at hand. You don’t have to start smacking things the exact second a tank does. Settle down spaz. Non issue.

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Funny thing is, they’d get a higher DPS reading if they actually used they 5 seconds to build up to their big burst while tanks grab aggro instead of just dropping everything before the tank is even touched all of the mobs

I agree with Wonkers. Let the tank build threat first then go smack the baddie in the face with your weapons unless your tank is high speed in threat management, which is a rare case these days.

In my experience even if I have given a 5-15 second window for a tank to gather and establish threat a good amount of the time our aoe best still pulls threat lol. I don’t disagree alot of warriors go monkey on pull but, tank threat is eh.

Normally it’s not the entire pack that you aggro - it usually will only pull 1 or 2 at best, being the lowest on the aggro list from the tank. But still, in higher keys that’s all it takes, 1 or 2 melee swings coupled with whatever affix you’re running to go splat.

Tanks that aren’t swapping targets and expecting their 1-2 aoe abilities to grab and hold all 10 mobs is the issue. If i’m going to go ham outta the gate, I’m going to make sure I’m targeting what the tank is targeting at least to minimize my chances of getting wailed on.

I understand what you guys are saying about waiting but other classes can immidiately pop off as soon as the tank hits its first ability on a pack pull so im just asking for a level playing field. Not to mention other classes have heavy defensives to counter getting agro such as a ret pally bursting can just bubble, hand of freedom to get out of slows and roots, lay on hands and god knows what else. What is the argument for why the agro tables should remain the same and justify it is good for us to wait 5 seconds and watch the tank twirl around for a bit before initiating on the pack. We all want to play the game so let tanks tank and let dps pump. Lets not forget many players allocate alot of time in mythic + keys in which everything is a time crunch when pushing keys. Theres no way to justify sitting idle every single trash pull in a dungeon waiting for the agro tables to look decent enough to start attacking.

So…reduce Warriors damage as to not pull threat as easily? You do understand the potential for Warrior AoE burst compared to say that of a Ret Paladin (which under the right circumstances isn’t anything to disregard).

Once every 5 minutes. If that’s your argument, it’s not a good one. No offense but only able to go heavy on a group every 5 minutes isn’t a pro. And HoP doesn’t let you attack.

The high AoE burst ceiling that warriors hold. You can still wait 5 seconds and blow everyone else out of the water.

Threat management is it’s own mechanic and always has been. Remember the “wait for 3 sunders” days?

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Yeah this is bs. We have to wait the tank generate aggro and even then we might pull some and get instakilled.

Meanwhile hunter pops its cds hiting even before the tank and generating aggro >for the tank<.

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So fun fact fury warriors are beat by a fair few classes as far as aoe goes in the game. Not to mention that almost all of those classes still have well rounded single target as well where as in keys 20+ im pushing at most 13-14k single target and those aoe classes such as locks, mm and survival hunters and mages are doing more single target than i am. So the whole reduce warriors damage argument is not valid, i encourage you to dive into logs and see the top damage classes throughout on single target and aoe fights and i promise you fury warriors are not in the top 3-5 with classes that are geared proportionally. Please never make a argument of how wow used to be with “Wait for 3 sunders” if you want to go play classic then go ahead but this is a real issue on retail and for the most part in my 10 years of playing a warrior i cant recall having this much trouble with snatching aggro anytime a tank does have their dps cds such as incarn for a bear up or convoke to generate more threat based off their damage.

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And guess what - they’re not going Ham out of the gate either. Hunter can thanks to Misdirect. But you’re acting like they’re blowing everything before the mobs are even hit by the tank.

They have the same issues you do.

i mean if you want i can send you the logs from my runs last night where locks are starting pulls within 1 sec after the tank and a survival hunter as well and i cant due to agro issues. Regardless i dont understand why your so defensive over it. The whole point of the forum post was to bring issue to the light of the warriors aggro issues. If you dont care about it the move on but you have yet to make a valid point in stating that there are no agro issues for the warriors out there. Go to the druid forums or something my guy if you want to just be a negative nancy and not offer anything constructive.

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count to ten, roll arms

Locks have a little bit of a build up.

Had MD

Because you open with your hardest hitting ability out of the gate. You can’t drop Spear, Recklessness and Bladestorm out of the gate. Not when it pushes your crit to insane levels meaning you’re going to be hitting for 200% damage out of the gate.

I think you’re mistaken what the word defensive means. I’m not defensive about this situation at all. There’s just reasons why you don’t see WW monks who are able to push insane amounts of AoE as well (just as comparable as Fury Warrior) complaining about aggro issues.

Yes please do. We can go through them together and we can explain to you where the issues lie.

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Warrior threat generation is too high vs other classes. Arms or fury can yank threat at any point throughout an aoe fight while generating nearly 30% less damage than other classes. So they are currently a class that is limited in damage by threat generation not throughput ability on m+ dungeons, frost mages have the same issue they make more threat for some reason than other classes, though thier role as ranged dps mobility and constant slows make it less notable.

@grizz my anecdotal experience in pugs is completely at odds with your opinion. Locks and hunters are pulling 60-80k and if i blade storm 15 seconds into a fight ill get threat wether i’m spear of bastion or not.

I’m going to edit this: If at any reasonable point in time during an aoe fight of 5 targets or more. I cast spear warbreaker avatar and blade storm i’ve got threat. I have begun popping Die by the sword pre-emptively for it because its the only thing i can do.

Has anyone run a threat tracker and measured actual threat numbers on the tracker vs. other classes?

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And mine is the opposite of yours. Even in the event I set up for a big pull and go Spear + Recklessness + WW + Rampage + Bladestorm, most Tanks have a solid hold on aggro.

There’s not many tanks who don’t have high AoE damage abilities to grab and hold. Guardian and Thrash is about as weak as it gets, but even then they’re running UFR and the procs help considerably with that. And if they’ve got their 4 piece, that’s AoE damage + 4 Thrashes + whatever procs which should be enough to be holding everything

Pulling aggro on your primary target makes sense if it’s not the same mob that the tank has targeted. But pulling multiple mobs off the tank in that scenario just hasn’t happened to me.

Disclaimer: Warrior is mostly Prot and I just hang around the 15 key range with him

@grizzle

when i spin in arms i’m on 60k dps, my fury buddy finishes on 16-18 k in a dungeon i finish on 16 or so, which is ok, locks, hunters, rogues finish on 20k+ in dungeons which are +18-21. They don’t pull threat during the big pulls but we do…thats a balance issue for a number of reasons. The warriors are pushing at maximum possible output vs. theier threat if they’re like me they’re holding back It is VERY strange to have a set of dps specs who’d dps is limited by their threat gen like this. I can go absolutley nuts on an enhance shaman to NO effect making about 30k dps on bigger pulls. I can make 60k dps on an ele shaman no threat.

these aren’t numbers for bragging they’re just for reference to the threat / dps ratio that seems to be out of balance with warriors specifically.

My opener for arms if i’m going flat out is charge overpower overpower(4% str buff) spear, warbreaker, avatar, then sweeping strikes if i don’t bladestorm of the legendary. So thats literally 3 gcd’s before anything big happens, and 6 before the dps really hits.

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It’s well known that grizz is a forum troll, and he makes up his own truth without experience most of the time.

Clearly has not played dps warrior in general at high ilvl.

Threat calculations have been busted for a long time and there’s no shortage of threads about it-- made the class almost unplayable on skittish weeks in BFA.

The nature of our cooldowns actually isn’t punishing to wait to dps most of the time, I usually just go into the aoe rotation and wait until I have enough rage to enrage off a cleaved rampage and as long as my tank isn’t a complete jabroni I’m good to go into full nut mode.

I’ve literally ripped aggro and died with an early whirlwind on many occasions which is beyond dumb considering it does negative damage. Definitely hope this gets looked at for dragontimes.

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:joy::joy::joy: cute

It’s all anecdotal experiences.

Show me the logs where you charge into a group after a tank pulls and your whirlwind causes your death

I believe it, but shouldn’t this all be true for all levels of play. It should be happening at 230 the same rate as it is at 270 no?

I know it’s about the same as me popping Convoke early into a pull as well and getting a large FF + Bite combo early as well.

But that’s also single target and I only pull 1-2 at a time out of a group of like 8-10.

I’ve been trying in a few 12-15 keys on my Warrior to pull threat mid pull rather than the initial pull to see if I can rip something away, and negatory =/