Current game will never bring back old players

I did, and honestly, might’ve been my server but never experienced those, and barely heard about them. Only major patches like sunwell I heard had some servers down but that was due to congestion in one area. Wrath launch day from what I recall was pretty some over all because they learned from TBC and only the super large realms had DC’s.

Actually most of the issue’s was caused by realm pop, however we shouldn’t have a realm pop issue now-a-days due to the sharding system reducing strain on the servers but we still have issue’s even on low pop realms.

Also Wpvp back in those day’s where waaaaaaaaaay waaaaaaaaaay smoother than now. now if you have a 40v40 you just hope that the realm doesn’t crash if they all have AoE effects over lapping like we seen with swifty in mop.

I disagree. It does attract new players, but probably most don’t reach max level, and even fewer get into end game.

Leveling right now serves the sole purpose of rushing new players into end game, as though someone who was just learning to move their character across the screen yesterday should be ready to start min maxing like the most hardcore of hardcores. Or they would be if they were mentored by someone who hadn’t been a new player in more than a decade but was a high achiever in end game content.

Players used to have all the time they wanted to hang out in the game and do whatever they felt like. Now they don’t. It’s whip out your wallet or bust.

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thats why everyone is whining in tbc cause unbalance on pvp servers lol. i spent 8 yrs on one 25:1 sometimes you need to look at things and don’t say it would bring people back. and everyone whining saying no community blah blah blah i’m in 5 huge community things do discord with alot i mean sometimes the things people whine about is there own fault nothing to do with blizz. there’s many options out there to have fun and talk the problem most people never use anything. people don’t want pvp servers cause they already know they will be miserable and unbalanced. no one whines in retail now but they sure are in tbc. and guilds ain’t that hard to find considering there’s tons in trade everyday.

I just don’t understand what they are trying to accomplish because if the goal is cyclical game play you don’t time gate returning cyclical players. If the goal is long term game play you don’t time gate because of players that want to stick around long term.

Time gating is fine with some things for the health of the game but not everything.

WoW has always attracted many new players and very few make it toward endgame. I do agree the level squish and revamped leveling was designed to funnel more newer players to endgame. But I agree with your thoughts that it is counter productive to rush players to endgame while not focusing on class and spec identity. This class and spec identity is built by playing at your own pacing and making sense in your own universe how skills, abilities, spells and talents come together. And how they work in conjunction with one another.

Rushing new players to endgame without having a firm understanding of spec and class function while asking them to learn rental systems is a bit much. Worse, rental systems are washed away in less than 2 years and they have to start from scratch again. Even for veteran players it can be a bit much.

:surfing_woman: :surfing_man:

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WoW has been shifting its revenue model for a while. They don’t need the volume of players they once did; what they target now is high value loyalists that are willing to spend in several segments:

  • Sub
  • Merch
  • Tokens
  • E-sport/events

This type of diverse segmenting makes it easier to keep revenue high because all the money eggs are not in a single basket.

Even if the game failed entirely and shut down, they could let it lay dormant for a while and launch new iterations playing the nostalgia angle.

My point is this is not some random accident from the company - this is by design. Granted, not a forward thinking, gamer-centric design, but stock thinking in the MBA/big business point of view.

We can expect more of the same.

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This is why there is WoW Classic and TBCC, really, and likely will be WotLKC eventually as well (I think the “classic” games will end there).

Retail isn’t trying to retain the old skool casual, slower paced players. They’re aiming at the younger market. Why? Because their marketing suits are telling them that younger people spend more time playing video games, and therefore more money (looking at league, fortnite etc) and that this demographic, which is focused on competitive gaming, streams, and the like, is where the focus should be … not on aging old skool players in their 40s and 50s with a lot of other time and money commitments.

The problem with that reasoning is that MMOs are just not very attractive to a younger audience. The reasons have been touched on by various posts in this thread. The time commitment involved in doing the actual competitive content (as compared with easy on/off games like league and fortnite, where you can get in and out of a match in 30 minutes) is unattractive. The idea of having to level a character before you can play the “real game” is unattractive. The idea of having the actual PvP aspect of the game also require time-consuming gearing (again, as compared with mobas, royales and team shooters etc) is unattractive. And above all the idea that they should pay a monthly subscription fee to play a single game – any game, but especially a game designed to take time to play – seems utterly asinine to most of them when compared with the other games they like and which are on the market.

WoW’s problem is that its core market is the older, old skool crowd, because MMOs in general now are old skool games. That’s why there is such a trend now for “classic” modes in these games – it reflects the demographics of the playerbase, which is older and has different tastes in gaming. That older playerbase, though, is not as large as the younger one, and has less time to devote to gaming (and worse reflexes and therefore less interest in hypercompetitive gaming a la “twitch skill” gaming).

Blizzard isn’t entirely stupid, however. What they are trying to do is split the baby. That is, they are well aware that the MMO market is moribund and mostly made up of older players with lots of nostalgia. They would like to attract younger players to their particular game (i.e., grow the MMO market by doing this) while at the same time milking (for lack of a better word) the old skool players who still like WoW enough to play it. This is how the game is designed now – keep the content for the old skool drip-fed (and also provide ample actual “classic”, nostalgia content available on the same sub), while the focus of the game is on the red meat competitive content that is hoped will attract the younger gaming audience. They are trying to do both, and the content reflects that – and that’s a key reason why SL is a failed design. You really can’t do both, at least not very well. By doing both, you bog down the competitive content with timegated chores while at the same time weighing down the old skool/RPG content with mandatory competitive content. It’s the worst of all worlds.

Again, this arises for Blizzard because they know that their existing playerbase is old and has no real future in terms of sustained income stream (it’s a declining base in that sense). They want to at least try to attract new players, which means younger players, and so they are hyping the competitive game play, given that this is what is most popular with younger gamers who don’t currently play MMOs much (as compared with older players). It makes some sense from the perspective of a marketing suit brain, but it doesn’t work for game design. It leads to bastardized designs like SL, which in turn are leading to a lot of discontented players.

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Oh , I thought there would be a huge influx of people who quit 10 years ago, thanks for the heads up!

I see you, wrangler of sweat hogs! A tip of the hat and a welcome back!

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they clearly do not care about gamers that liked the old design

all they care about is gamers that like to buy gold in the cash shop and they have extremely detailed stats and metrics on which segments those players come from

you can see their focus on those gamers in pretty much every aspect of their laborious systems and what they require

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That’s definitely clear from all the boost selling that Blizzard allows to go on inside of the game.

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If I wanted to have ESO graphics, Id go play ESO.

uh…yeah…because when I leave my house every day EVERYONE out there…every…single…person…has to know me and love me. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

That i would prefer…

Not when Ion can just take it or change it or make it worthless…

Some have been unlikeable. Sylvanas for example.

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wrath and cataclysm was over a decade ago man let it go.

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Very true, though I would argue Blizz screwed the pooch by adding boosts to TBCC and will probably make the same mistake if they do the same for WOTLKC.

I’d be very curious to see what would happen if after WOTLKC blizz decided to stop with that version and let that world carry on with a classic plus. Meaning keep adding new content to the game by carrying the story forward but in the “classic” style. That would make for some interesting competition. One of the things holding me back from committing to classic is the knowledge that it ends and will have no future outside of rehashed old content. If they were to continue that version of the game forward with new content I would seriously consider switching.

I wouldn’t trust these modern devs to do anything good with the classic games. They don’t know how to create or expand upon an actual world.

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I don’t disagree that it’s possible to make friends in retail, but some people make friends easier than others. Even IRL making friends is largely done by being in the same place as others doing like minded things, time and time again. Which is why it was easier on servers where you would bump into the same ppl.

It’s completely possible to do it still, but I’d have to put myself out there in a discord and randomly talk to strangers in a chat system I don’t care to use when I’d rather just play the game.

Retail has just moved away from an easier way to make friends. And yeah, trade chat spamming for guilds could work, but you can’t look up a guild in game. I shouldn’t have to use 3rd party websites and software to play WoW and make friends IMO.

As far as server imbalance goes, it was always a thing, but just don’t join a server that’s imbalance. It takes about 3 expansions at least before imbalance becomes a problem usually.
I haven’t seen the everyone whining. If you’re talking about ppl complaining of being killed 3 on 1 in pvp: it’s pvp. It happens. Players rarely attack a group with more players, it’s a numbers game.

Retail wow is still better than classic by a long shot… A lot of small game changes to retail are why retail is dominant over classic.

The newer models are far better than the old ones. They were still cartoony with old models. Some people just don’t like change period.

The old talent trees caused most people to look up their builds online just to pick the right talents. That hasn’t changed people’s decisions at all just because it’s in classic.

People are also constantly opting for changes in classic to make systems better, which were not part of classic.

Classic becomes very dead after the hype train is gone.

The only things that I can think up of as to why retail isnt doing very well (still better than classic) is:

1.) Borrowed power is not fun, after having it nerfed or destroyed in the following expansion. They destroyed the fun part of legion for me which was leveling all my toons weapons. Also they took away corruption gear, instead of keeping it for time walking.

2.) There are too many time gates made in retail to waste your time, or to get you play longer with little to no reward.

3.) There’s not enough content to keep people going after awhile.

4.) The new renown system, and legendaries has made me not want to level alts as much.

5.) Mythic + went from having lots of loot in legion, to being nerfed to the point of where it burns people out for rewards that are not on par with raid gear anymore.

As much as I don’t like some things in retail, it’s still far better than classic. I’ve done every previous expansion when it was current and I have no desire to go back to broken classes /systems that take far too long to do anything.

I think you’re just wrong. I’m turning 32 this year and I played wow vanilla when I was a teenager. Most people who played vanilla did so when they were in high school. People my age want to play the classic version of the game because we prefer it, you keep saying to change things to somehow please this “older demographic” with no time but the reality is the people who played wow when they were young want the same game. They don’t want it to be made more casual or easier.

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Well it brought me back.

I should qualify that though…Classic brought me back, and while enjoying the straight-forward nature of that series, dabbling with Retail (and focusing on just playing the game for enjoyment rather than “goals”, though I admit that is completely subjective and not “better” than a progressive raiders goal for them self) has brought a level of enjoyment I haven’t had in years.

Incorrect mostly. World of systems is not going to draw anyone it

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Pretty much this. Very few people that I know that used to play this game stopped, or quit for gameplay reasons, or changes. The IRL friends I played wow with back in TBC, WOLK days stopped playing, because they just burnt out on videogaming in general. Got older like you said, and just moved on in life. Threads like this are funny though. The folks who make them want everyone to believe that the only possible reason people quit playing this game, is because they don’t like how the game changed :laughing:

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