It doesn’t negate it, the result is a much lower attack speed, since a 50% reduction is equivalent to a 100% increase, so if 100 is normal attack speed:
100 * 0.5 = 50
50 * 1.4 = 70
so with zealots fervor we lose 30% AA speed
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For what its worth, I did a dungeon with both TS and CSSA (just heroic, just going for feel) and TS FELT a lot better than CSAA as of now. CSAA felt more bursty, as I had periods where everything lined up and I was able to chain some moves, but there was also a lot of excruciating dead time waiting for stuff to come off of CD while I just slowly auto attacked. I should have paid more close attention to the numbers but again my focus was A. Feel and B. getting used to how the game played overall. I’m probably going to stick with TS unless CSAA is just that mathmatically superior.
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Appreciate your commentary, dawg. We fellow paladins are gonna need the feedback from guys like you, Arahgon, etc. to see how it’s gonna “feel” for us in Midnight.
Again, I’m glad they brought back csaa so that players have a choice in their playstyle. There were a lot of people clamoring for Blizz to bring it back and I understand why.
That being said, I still think as of this moment, TS is gonna be the play considering all the variables. But csaa will have its uses.
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And so the only good thing about mid ight ret is gone. Oh well guess Im enh main now
Don’t threaten us with a good time. 
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I am all for choices and build diversity (remember I am one of the ones that wants a Consecrate manual cast choice node), but I just can’t see CSAA being any more of a choice in Midnight than it was in TWW- especially with Ret having its damage shifted more into spenders.
Templar Strikes will have to be absolutely wild to overcome that much passive holy power generation and talent procs. I can’t see Blizz letting a builder be that strong, and even if they do it would just overshadow all other builders except AoW procs.
We will see. I hope I’m wrong.
Not really. Csaa is considerably slower by 50%. This bares repeating…
This means less procs for Empyrean Power and less procs for Art of War. It also means is doesn’t scale with Mastery. The napkin math in my head says that’s a noticable dps loss. The new csaa isn’t useless (far from it) but these nerfs apparently makes Templar Strikes the play.
Unless you have something else to add that I missed.
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As it is, it seems the other moving part of Ret keeps it in check, as pointed out by Ara.
The apex talent incentivize more BoJ, which means you want more AoW proc if possible and the attack speed penalty just break that notion on top of scaling horribly with haste.
It also doesn’t scale at all with mastery and doesn’t have the Blessed Champion interaction with AoW…
Those were always options to “balance” live although I am surprised to see a talent that outright states it penalizes you.
That’s quite the step taken to appease those who wanted to keep it.
If it stays in this shattered form, I don’t think it will be an issue.
Just to summarize and rephrase while putting it in perspective, it’s technically the same HP generation as live but with with 50% less AA which means 50% less AoW procs.
Even if it hits “harder” than live (188% vs 63%), it takes twice the time to hit, so it’s 188% vs 126% from that alone and then the loss of mastery scaling puts them about equal at 50% mastery.
It’s less than 50% mastery as well because since it’s physical damage, it goes through armor mitigation.
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i honestly dont see why
you needed a swing timer to optimize it, and bringing it back went against blizzards philsopy. i know plenty of players just didnt care enough to optimize it with a swing time, but thge fact is you still needed one.
now its back and its worse in multiple regards.
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i mean thats crazy to say, the ONLY good thing ret had in midnight.
it sounds like you wanted to jump ship for awhile and was looking for a excuse to put a spotlight on yourself while you threaten to leave for the 1091291829821 time
losing 12 potential light within procs mathematically over a 5min patchwerk fight is just, enough to completely and utterly bury csaa. not to mention everything else
Everybody has a preference, my dawg. As you know, I myself LOVE Templar Strikes. Nothing defines paladin like taking a big @$$ hammer and swiping an enemy upside the head. But there are those players who just don’t like hitting TS and would rather have one less button to press. And that’s all good, I can get with that. Having a legitimate choice is always welcome.
Eh, I don’t use one and I’m doing okay in M+.
It’s not as good as live but if it was; there’d be no room, AGAIN, for playing TS.
Csaa isn’t bad, it’s just not as good as it is now. There’s a difference.
yes i know its okay not to use a swing time, doesnt change the fact that its required to optimize it
im more upset about blizzards lack of consistency regarding their own philosophy. like why was so much accessibility removed (hekili, weakauras, dbm) if theyre going to add back stuff that needs a weakaura to customize. like their own ui stuff is still undercooked and were 2-3 months from release.
Having slower AA is bad for Light Within procs.
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I want CSAA to be completely gone unless they make HoW its own button again. Right now if you play CSAA if have only BoJ and Judgment to press as HP generators and it feels boring. It’s like playing a 3 button class.
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It’s not just slower it’s excruciatingly slower. There were times I had at least two seconds of nothing on the beta. I guess time to pocket heal, but still. If I didn’t completely play around the melee swings I had nothing to press.
Definitely not picking it. It’s just bad.
Blizzard being inconsistent? Say it ain’t so.
You must be new around here. 
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It really feels like we are in the darts to a board phase on midnight and csaa on beta feels like it’s a “fine you want it, here!” kind of addition.
I actually might mess around with csaa and one button rotation when I get home as the massive gaps in stuff to press with csaa and the increased gcd might smoothen each other out….
maybe new meme way to ret, incoming!
Righteous Cause instead of AoW? 
Does righteous cause even work with apex talents?