Crusade or Inquisition


#1

Crusade sims terribly for me, even if I use Light’s Decree traits, yet I see most parsing ret paladins using Crusade in Siege of Daz. Is there something I’m missing?


(Ilivath) #2

They’re both very good. If you have any Expurgation traits Crusade will never sim well for you. If you use Raidbots you could always post a link to it to your Top Gear sim.


#3

thanks, ill check out raidbots


#4

Totally depends on your gear and the fight as far as which one is the “best”. Honestly the last three talents are so close you can pick your personal preference and be fine.


(Ilivath) #5

That is not good advice. Depending on traits, trinkets, enchants and gems the difference between the 3 100 talents can be well over 500dps.


#6

Some players do prefer having a preferred talent and are okay losing a little dps to have the playstyle they want. I did say it depends as far as which is the “best”. If you’re not pushing content you could arguably use either three, depending on which one you like the most. They’re close enough that it’s pretty okay (for the most part), of course gear does determine that delta of difference.


(Ilivath) #7

Ya. For players who don’t push content or don’t have a mindset of wanting to prepare best as they can(which is most of the players) that advice could be fine. I just feel when a person tries to understand why people who parse well they might be trying to understand how they could do the same. General advice gets really tricky in that category.


(Tiridev) #8

OP, when you say that you see ‘most parsing ret paladins using Crusade’, I presume what you are doing is going to warcraftlogs and looking at the page 1 rankings of the boss fights?

If you are doing that, then you need to be aware that there is a trap. The trap is that Crusade is going to perform disproportionately well when Crusade is active for as large a percentage of the fight as possible; or to put it another way, it will perform best when the boss dies shortly after your last Crusade falls off. Click through on all those top rated Crusade parses and you’ll always see the same thing - the boss dies within ten seconds of the Ret’s last Crusade buff fading. If the boss dies just as Crusade is about to come off cooldown, it will hurt your parse.

(The same is going to be true of plain old Avenging Wrath, by the way, but the problem is going to be worse if you’re using Crusade as the effect of the alternative talents are not confined to your wings window and will flatten out your DPS curves a little.)

The only circumstance when it will always make sense to take Crusade over the other talents is if it is overtuned like it was throughout Legion. Is it overtuned now? Light’s Decree may have made it so for a while, but LD just got nerfed by 30% in a hotfix a few days ago.

I don’t think the answer is necessarily clear cut at the moment, and as Ilivath mentioned azerite traits and itemisation/gemming will make a difference. Try different set ups and see what works best for you.


(Ilivath) #9

While it is obviously better if the fight ends as soon as your Crusade ends that is not required for Crusade to be better than other talents on the same row. Here is an example of a 4 and 5 Minutes sim comparing Crusade and Inquisition. They’re very close and realistically you could take either and be effective in this example.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2UR1q3GH7FJjBfA6tde4RT


(Arnath) #10

Hi Ythisens, it is awesome to see you posting in the Paladin forums, any chance Holy Paladins can get some communication about our long list of issues?


(Tiridev) #11

I agree with you. And each talents’ sims will go up and down depending upon gear and enchants.

I was more trying to point out that Crusade being overrepresented in the top 1% of parses doesn’t necessarily mean that it is a superior choice. It could simply be that on aggregate it has a wider range (both higher and lower) of potential DPS than Inquisition or DP. The thing is, you could easily get the impression from warcraftlogs that Crusade is superior simply because the first page of the rankings tends to be dominated by players with Crusade who were lucky enough to have the fight timing work out well for them on a given parse.


#13

All of this is great advice, guys. Pleasantly surprised and flattered to see a blue post in here. I’ve always enjoyed Inquisition, so I guess I’ll just stick with it. Glad to see I’m not hamstringing myself in doing so. It makes sense about the top parsers having favorable fight durations and I hadn’t considered that before.

Again, thanks for all of the input everyone.


#14

Yeah. If you really enjoy Inquisition figure out the best traits to go with it. The reason Crusade and LD are used so much is due to the burst at the end of Crusade. Also, that burst makes it superior to the other talents in Cleave fights. If it’s a ST fight choose what you want and have the Azerite to back that play style. :slight_smile:

Good luck to you my friend.


#15

One other thing to try and help you is this Bloodmallet. Bloodmallet compare Azerite traits and gives you rankings for each one depending on the type of fight.


(Ilivath) #16

In general it is always better to sim yourself then rely on generic charts. However, if you do want charts to use Bloodmallet is not the best resource for Ret. The profile they use at this time is not ideal and some of the choices made on the gear are not what you would actually want to follow. The Hammer of Wrath Discord has other resources in the #ret-faq channel that provide alternatives that are tailored specifically to Ret such as https://www.retpaladin.xyz.


#17

Yeah. It’s unfortunate that for us right now it seems we have to resort to more outside resources than other classes. I know that I need to hit up HoW when I get home today. Especially since I was building LD and now I need to figure out what’s going on.


(Stormherald) #18

You are aware there is more than 1 class is wow?

Perhaps you could reply to some other class threads.


(Ulthané) #19

Because he literally is a ret main. People complain about lets say a mage commenting on a warrior thread. This would be the same result: A mod who plays ret commenting on warrior stuffs.


#20

This, right here, is why the game continues to go into the toilet.


#21

I find Crusade to be ridiculously fun, especially with Relentless Inquisitor traits and/or heroism! So much haste…