I actually misunderstood it. That ability isnt going to gain you 0 dps because you use it on a suboptimal spec. That was however the case with AZ abilities. By picking the covenant with that ability you’re just doing less damage in a certain game mode on the suboptimal spec than had you picked the optimal ability. It’s not worth 0.
you do realize that if people have to choose between lowering their bar to entry or waiting several hours, people will instead choose the third option, leave the game. i choose to raid at a low mythic, high heroic level because i don’t enjoy mythic raiding. that means i like to compete with people but i’m not going to go hardcore over every little thing for every advantage. if i had to lower my standard to people who can barely do normal, i would just leave the game to because my fun is compromised at that point. why would i stick around in a game that limits peoples fun and is clearly dying?!
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I disagree. There are expectations when it comes to playing with a guild that has the desire to organize the way they distribute loots, or how they prioritize their players’ play time.
A guild that has aspirations to progress the hardest contents will naturally select the players who customize their characters in ways that favors that type of content.
This of course has consequences of establishing a social pressure to always pick what is best and so on. However, I think bringing this up now, as if it’s an ultimate issue that has been ruining the game, is wrong. This has simply been a part of the game since day 1 way back in 2004.
This is a video game. If you do not desire to make your character the best it can be to tackle difficult content, then you will be tossed away. I firmly believe this is a good thing.
Would you hire someone that has no desire to do a good job, or simply move on to the next candidate?
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neither were the azerite traits. each piece of azerite came with one spec specific trait and one generic. if you want to use that logic, nothing you picked would give a 0 dps gain/loss unless you knowingly chose it. you are defeating your own arguments.
I’m really not. You’re just being difficult. The general traits were trash for the most part and to this day specs still only use 1 or 2 of the 12+ that exist. The spec traits and raid traits are what’s used. And if you meant the secondaries those are more akin to conduits and soulbinds.
so that argument was self-defeated since you were still gaining dps unless you deliberately choose traits that weren’t for your spec while in a different spec. now you switch it over to the peer pressure argument. those “1 or 2 of the 12+” traits are mostly used because of peer pressure. you know what doesn’t solve peer pressure? restrictive mechanics. it just means people either change covenants for the content they want (which forces them away from other desires like cosmetics and the different gameplay each covenant will provide) just so they don’t get constantly declined from groups because that’s how people work, or they get declined from group after group which leads to either the person starting their own groups or just giving up. giving up will be the most likely outcome since many people don’t have the self-esteem and drive to lead a group.
got any other arguments to try and segway to?
Well no because you choose the traits with the first spec in mind. Like I said you’re just being difficult. People use the 1 or 2 traits because they’re good for that original spec they had in mind. The traits just also happen to be good for the other specs. You’re literally making unnecessary turns after every statement to get to your final conclusion.
How about no.
This isn’t a compromise this is just you straight up getting what you want. Just worded differently.
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He says because he did not get what he wanted… go throw a fit somewhere else
so either you are choosing to use traits that contribute absolutely nothing, at which point it is your fault, or you just respec the piece or get another piece. people use those 1 or 2 traits because it is the best trait mathematically, which is then reinforced by peer pressure.
that will happen with covenants. there will be a mathematically superior ability for aoe, single target, cleaving, pvp, and whatever else i’m not thinking of. those optimum abilities will then be reinforced by peer pressure in the community. this will lead to people changing covenants because they want to be accepted into groups which will cause people to not be able to play the content they want to.
you are the person being hard. you don’t want to accept that the system has inherent flaws and won’t work. as vadimier said earlier, you want an echo chamber, not a discussion.
You sound mad
Are you mad?
Here have a cookie 
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Great now go read the original post.
i’ve read every post in this thread. you just need to understand that what you want is inherently flawed and refuse to see it for some reason.
It’s what I call the I want factor. When a person wants something bad enough. It becomes really hard to see the flaws in the thing they want. Everyone is guilty of it, yes even myself.
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So letting you pick a different ability regardless of the covenant you chose is wrong?
i’m certain everyone does at some point. the issue for me stems from them expecting an echo chamber and getting mad when it doesn’t happen. i’m certain i’ve done it at times but that doesn’t change the fact that i’m wrong when i am, indeed, wrong.
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This echo chamber talk is so ironic
TBH, this is why we need the dislike button. Without the bury function. It would help us gauge who shares the community opinion more. Right now it’s just people fluffing their feathers and peacocking around.
Right now both sides think they are right because they think the community supports them. We both see likes after all. But how do you really know how many people hate it versus how many people like it.
your idea is just as restrictive. blizz wants you to lose progress for changing covenants and you want people to lose progress to change ONCE and never again. your idea is actually worse because with blizzards system, i can change more than once.
let’s say that you decide to change your idea from losing 2 weeks of progress for one permanent change to changing any number of times for less progress lose. i’ll use one day of progress as the bar for this example. if i want to do m+, i’ll need to do all my m+ at once because if i don’t, i’ll be losing a minimum of 2 days of progress just to swap. same thing with pvp, raiding, etc.
now let’s look at what i like to do. i only like pve so i really only do world content, m+, and raiding. i’ll need to swap to aoe unless it’s a single target week so there goes one day of progress. then i’ll need to swap again if the boss my guild is progressing is single target so thats two days of progress. if i want to do anymore m+ between our raid days, that’s 3 days of progress. then i’d swap back for the next raid night for a fourth day of progress gone. then if i want to m+ before the week resets, that’s a 5th day of progress gone.
so just going off what i like to do, that would be a minimum of 3 days of progress lost just to swap abilities if i don’t m+ outside of the set raid days. even if i limit myself in the extreme to only using one ability during the raid time frame and swap to aoe for a set number of days to do m+, that’s 2 days of progress lost. at that point, i would feel the game doesn’t respect me or my time. why would i grind for two days if i am just going to lose that progress?
your system is SO much worse than what blizz is doing and blizzards is already horrible.
You know what? I never thought about that. I think I should change my Support to the OP now. I’m all for it after I heard it’s more restrictive lol.
