that peer pressure will exist regardless.
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Is someone holding a gun against your head right now to play the right talents and so on?
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Sure, but with more permanent choices players will be less able to force others to “just swap covenants”.
Of course, some will still try, which is why it will be interesting to see how this plays out.
so rather than answering how it doesn’t affect my spec play, you just try to brush it off with a horribly thought out excuse.
i like PVE content. that means raiding AND m+. you know what raiding has? single target, cleaving, and mass aoe fights. literally all the abilities would help in some regard to this content alone. the issue is one will be numerically superior which means if i want to have my fun trying to parse, i will need to switch abilities. but since i realistically can’t switch between covenants between each boss, my fun is reduced as a whole.
m+ gets away with needing more aoe than single target but that doesn’t excuse the restriction. there are weeks where you want more single target than aoe so i guess i’d have to lose a crap load of progress just to have fun.
like i said, your logic and position make no sense.
No, but no one was literally holding a gun to anyone’s head to share drops before ML was fixed, either.
The player base does things that are unpleasant for many casual players. Persistent or at least durable covenants is a step towards correcting this, but as I said there will be growing pains.
The people that don’t like it are the ones that were making it bad for everyone else.
so instead people will be declined from groups for not having the optimal ability. good choice. rather than let people change so that they have a better chance of enjoying the game, make them feel discriminated against just like all the people who refuse to make a group for m+ and get declined because their RIO is too low.
you see RIO and the hate it gets? that is what permanent choices are. those people can’t get into a group because of a bad system and choose to not do what is within their own power to better the score. instead they feel hated and become toxic idiots on this forum.
THAT is the system you want.
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As the population shrinks this won’t be a viable group formation strategy. You take from the people that apply, or you wait several hours.
The very idea that there is an optimal ability means there is no player choice.
I’m glad you agree.
I actually misunderstood it. That ability isnt going to gain you 0 dps because you use it on a suboptimal spec. That was however the case with AZ abilities. By picking the covenant with that ability you’re just doing less damage in a certain game mode on the suboptimal spec than had you picked the optimal ability. It’s not worth 0.
you do realize that if people have to choose between lowering their bar to entry or waiting several hours, people will instead choose the third option, leave the game. i choose to raid at a low mythic, high heroic level because i don’t enjoy mythic raiding. that means i like to compete with people but i’m not going to go hardcore over every little thing for every advantage. if i had to lower my standard to people who can barely do normal, i would just leave the game to because my fun is compromised at that point. why would i stick around in a game that limits peoples fun and is clearly dying?!
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I disagree. There are expectations when it comes to playing with a guild that has the desire to organize the way they distribute loots, or how they prioritize their players’ play time.
A guild that has aspirations to progress the hardest contents will naturally select the players who customize their characters in ways that favors that type of content.
This of course has consequences of establishing a social pressure to always pick what is best and so on. However, I think bringing this up now, as if it’s an ultimate issue that has been ruining the game, is wrong. This has simply been a part of the game since day 1 way back in 2004.
This is a video game. If you do not desire to make your character the best it can be to tackle difficult content, then you will be tossed away. I firmly believe this is a good thing.
Would you hire someone that has no desire to do a good job, or simply move on to the next candidate?
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neither were the azerite traits. each piece of azerite came with one spec specific trait and one generic. if you want to use that logic, nothing you picked would give a 0 dps gain/loss unless you knowingly chose it. you are defeating your own arguments.
I’m really not. You’re just being difficult. The general traits were trash for the most part and to this day specs still only use 1 or 2 of the 12+ that exist. The spec traits and raid traits are what’s used. And if you meant the secondaries those are more akin to conduits and soulbinds.
so that argument was self-defeated since you were still gaining dps unless you deliberately choose traits that weren’t for your spec while in a different spec. now you switch it over to the peer pressure argument. those “1 or 2 of the 12+” traits are mostly used because of peer pressure. you know what doesn’t solve peer pressure? restrictive mechanics. it just means people either change covenants for the content they want (which forces them away from other desires like cosmetics and the different gameplay each covenant will provide) just so they don’t get constantly declined from groups because that’s how people work, or they get declined from group after group which leads to either the person starting their own groups or just giving up. giving up will be the most likely outcome since many people don’t have the self-esteem and drive to lead a group.
got any other arguments to try and segway to?
Well no because you choose the traits with the first spec in mind. Like I said you’re just being difficult. People use the 1 or 2 traits because they’re good for that original spec they had in mind. The traits just also happen to be good for the other specs. You’re literally making unnecessary turns after every statement to get to your final conclusion.
How about no.
This isn’t a compromise this is just you straight up getting what you want. Just worded differently.
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He says because he did not get what he wanted… go throw a fit somewhere else
so either you are choosing to use traits that contribute absolutely nothing, at which point it is your fault, or you just respec the piece or get another piece. people use those 1 or 2 traits because it is the best trait mathematically, which is then reinforced by peer pressure.
that will happen with covenants. there will be a mathematically superior ability for aoe, single target, cleaving, pvp, and whatever else i’m not thinking of. those optimum abilities will then be reinforced by peer pressure in the community. this will lead to people changing covenants because they want to be accepted into groups which will cause people to not be able to play the content they want to.
you are the person being hard. you don’t want to accept that the system has inherent flaws and won’t work. as vadimier said earlier, you want an echo chamber, not a discussion.
You sound mad
Are you mad?
Here have a cookie 
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Great now go read the original post.
i’ve read every post in this thread. you just need to understand that what you want is inherently flawed and refuse to see it for some reason.