I think it’s gotten to the point where Crusading Strikes genuinely has to go, no amount of tuning can make it so you’re not forced to take this ability if you want to be effective in high end content. And instead of at least filling the hole somewhere, it’s gotten worse, the tuning for Retribution is so bad right now that the current meta builds for AoE/M+ basically force you to take Radiant Glory, and talent out of Execution Sentence. That’s two more buttons gone, how did we get to this stage?
This is genuinely feels worse for the spec than the WoD ability prune and BFA’s GCD and target cap. It’s hard-headed and unnecessary design, countless times the feedback has been throughout the beta that Ret feels awful, no fixes, now it feels even worse live. I understand that Retribution is a VERY popular spec but there has to be a middle ground here for those who have been Ret mains for the longest time. It was a spec that anyone can pick up and learn, but required mastery over the rotation and proper CD use to stand out as a great Retribution Paladin, this is no longer the case.
Genuinely the way things are I press my 3 buttons (2 of which are just judgment 2 times lol) and wait around for things to happen if none of my CDs are up.
8 Likes
Yeah, I am not vibing at all with current Ret, which keep in mind, I was already disappointed with it back in TWW, so there is some bias in my part, but man, the rotation feels so… Uninvolved? I don’t know, I don’t have fun at all with it.
I locked in as Prot this season, won’t be able to raid, but eh, at least I will have fun with keys.
3 Likes
Wdym? At the moment?
It sims lower than TS in most scenarios.
Maybe as we get more ilvl it will edge it out again.
I mean, yeah, they should have left it out but again, right now…
The only scenario where it’s superior is with all the buffs I can have and in AoE.
Single target Patchwerk - Nightly build - no buffs
CSAA sims 6.5% lower
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/58zLusC44jeNZmjZqtoeTv
5 targets Patchwerk - Nightly build - no buffs
CSAA sims 1% lower
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/641H9FaxzqQE3Vpjp4xGTw
8 targets Patchwerk - Nightly build - no buffs
CSAA sims 1% lower
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3HrK1tcMehusmGUHcEcqTR
Single target Patchwerk - Nightly build - all buffs
CSAA sims 1.1% lower
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1QKgUxbVHBovNqsgDJVxY6
5 targets Patchwerk - Nightly build - all buffs
CSAA sims 5.6% higher
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3x4KgunH5qDV64f5PRb8P9
2 Likes
What’s funny is how they originally removed Crusading Strikes and now it’s even more powerful than it used to be. Templar Strikes is awful. I love Crusading Strikes.
1 Like
No human can execute Templar Strikes anywhere near as well as a simulator.
3 Likes
What’s there to execute?
We have priorities, it’s the filler.
You use it when everything else is on CD.
I’m not saying everyone will play it perfectly but neither will people playing CSAA.
People WILL overcap with it so sims might as well be wrong with it as well, what’s your point?
Like, we can’t account for people not being perfect and to which degree, we can only aspire to what the sim tell us we could do.
It’s not like the choice between the 2 implies a convoluted gameplay change either…
You’ll never play it like the sims regardless of the talents you take so it’s irrelevant to mention unless the change is so different/complex it introduce more opportunities to mess it up, which is not the case now.
4 Likes
Templar Strikes is flawed in its design. It can’t be fully utilized while BoJ and Judgment are off cooldown. I’m pressing those two a lot during my Avenging Wrath windows.
CSAA is flawed in its design, TS is a normal ability.
They buffed it’s damage because they buffed AA damage.
They “buffed” it’s generation by giving it to all hit but nerfed the attack speed.
You might say that it’s an overall “buff” to HP generation but not quite.
Because it also means less AoW proc which was higher under the previous iteration.
It also no longer scale with mastery because blade of light is gone.
4 Likes
Crusading Strikes isn’t flawed. It works as it should as long as you stay in melee range. Templar Strikes is flawed because there aren’t enough opportunities to press it. If you like Templar Strikes so much, go ahead and use it, but don’t drag down the rest of us who like Crusading Strikes.
CSAA is litteraly worse off at the moment.
It’s not a feeling, its a fact.
It might not be in the near future but it is at our current level.
I’m not dragging anyone down.
OP is complaining about something he can resolve immediately with relative ease with likely no penalty to his performance, to the contrary, an improvement.
5 Likes
Just tell us you don’t know how to play paladin without telling us you don’t know how to play paladin. Geezus. 
Ben just told you TS sims better and gave you several reasons why to play or not play csaa. Your choice.
It’s also the beginning of the season. No, I take that back. The season hasn’t even officially begun yet. And several tuning passes have yet to be done. Our rotation may even change again because of it.
Anyone who’s basing their class spec performance right now on Heroic Dungeons and M0 dungeons don’t have a clue on how things work. There’s really not enough data to legitimately analyze the class.
It never ceases to amaze me how at the beginning of every season that Ben, Arahgon and I have to keep telling people to stop panicking and let the process play out.
Even if there’s a slight variation of power, the difference is so small that it really doesn’t matter unless you’re doing high end keys and/or going for Title.
Use Templar Strikes.
Problem solved.
2 Likes
Reminder to all CSAA panickers, TS and even base CS scales with mastery, so they will out scale CSAA at higher gear levels on it’s base (not mechanical) damage alone. On top of that base CS and TS ignores armor.
2 Likes
You know what? I totally forgot about that. Excellent point.
You’re actually useful from time to time, 'brae. We’ll let you still hang out here…for now. 
1 Like
Does anyone off hand know if CSAA hitting multiple targets will apply on-hit weapon enchantment effects to multiple targets? (or if hitting multiple targets gives multiple rolls on stat buff weap enchants?)
disagree, I like crusading strikes and we already have avenging wrath and Divine toll as dps cds.
Speccing away from execution sentence has just made the spec more fun personally. And I hate using active crusader strike, we already have judgement and BoJ to spam, and will need to spam them significantly more once we actually have gear.
Things are just slow right now because our ilvls are so low, people are acting like week2 ilvl 240 is high. It’s not and were going to get better gear from WQs soon with far more BoJ resets and low cds.
the only time i see myself using crusader strikes is a herald m+ build which seems just ok haste is so low right now (most secondary stats actually) but the gameplay style in m+ with that build makes sense. Templar on the other hand at no point would I not use templar strikes, treated as a filler that hits hard vs waiting for hpower or a button to come off cd keeps it much more fluid. It is NOT a rotation spell, it’s a nothing to push then hit this spell.
Everybody has opinions on things. And on a forum medium disagreements is always shown in a negative light.
Anyways, I had been thinking if base CS is better in pvp since crits isn’t ideal in pvp and it is both physical and holy damage (I don’t remember if magic resistances is still a big deal in pvp anymore)
I don’t think it’s change. At least I myself haven’t seen anything from a Blue Post or other forums mentioning change.
I’m sure the rules still apply.
dont worry they buffed crusading strikes
As well as Templar Strikes.