Competitive Integrity and UI

Hello everyone!

This is my last post about addons and competitive integrity in PvP for this season. I’d like to share my thoughts with you and hear what you think.

Personally, as a player who has been playing with addons for over 20 years, not having them is a huge pain. The game’s default UI is quite basic and doesn’t provide enough information, of course. But that’s not what this post is about.

This post is about the perspective and motivations of the people who are against playing with addons, and probably about Blizzard’s actions and their view of the current situation—the state of the game we have today.

So where exactly is the line when it comes to competitive integrity?

Let’s take diminishing returns as an example. It’s an 18-second hidden timer. Should players be able to see it? Some would say no. But what would that actually achieve?

In my opinion, it would only make PvP less effective, because players need to know exactly when they can use crowd control for its full duration—whether it’s to secure a kill or to peel and save someone or themselves.

In other games, there isn’t even a diminishing returns system. In fact, some supports and item combinations can keep you crowd controlled almost indefinitely. In WoW, trying to mentally track an 18-second hidden timer while dealing with so many crowd control effects in a fast-paced team environment is simply unrealistic.

So am I just trying to force my own point of view on you again? Sorry, but maybe we really should remove all this information. Maybe the game would actually be better and more fair that way?

Remember Classic (Vanilla) WoW? You couldn’t even see an enemy cast bar. There was no visible timer and no spellname, no cast bar at all. If for example a mage was casting something icy at you, it was most likely Frostbolt.

Now let’s imagine modern WoW without cast bars, without visible enemy health bars (which is honestly hard to even imagine—a game where you are basically fighting blind). Let’s also imagine that enemy buffs work the same way they did in Classic (Vanilla), meaning they are hidden. Would we really want to play a game like that?

Speaking about enemy buffs, the current game has a huge amount of micro talents and buff mechanics that can increase the number of buffs on an enemy to 3–4 rows. Trying to find and after track a specific buff among all of them and focus on the target frame while playing melee and chasing a kiting you ranged DPS is not exactly a realistic task.

And in general, the visual representation (animations) of more than 70% of defensive and offensive cooldowns in the game is very weak, dull, and barely noticeable. There are no clear visual indicators showing when an effect starts and when it ends.

If you remove the ability to track major defensive and offensive cooldowns on nameplates, then the game needs to make those animations much clearer—with strong visual indicators that clearly show the beginning and the end of the effect.

And once again, I come back to the conclusion that my original position was correct.

And there is one more important point: many players have said, and I have personally realized this as well, that playing without addons simply does not feel as enjoyable as it used to.
This is also a very important aspect to consider.

And of course, it is important to acknowledge that playing with third-party modifications is not completely fair, especially in competitive environments where some players have access to them while others do not.

Unfortunately, the current built-in Gameplay Enhancements (like the Damage Meter) are very low quality and feel unfinished, almost like they were made in a hurry and then forgotten. Maybe these tools should be constantly improved and modernized with every new patch and update?

After all, this is basically part of the core gameplay experience. In my opinion, it is much more important than the countless housing decoration items that are being added (personally, I don’t even have time for that kind of content, because my available playtime is strictly dedicated to the aspects of the game I enjoy the most for decades.)

And I would also like to share my opinion about focus and arena1, arena2, arena3 targeting macros.

Almost all of my action bars are filled with spells and macros. In my opinion, it would be a good thing if there was a way to free up those slots by removing arena 1, 2, 3 and focus target macros from the game.

I think this has gone too far. It requires much more skill to actually watch what is happening on the arena field—tracking enemy positioning, understanding where each opponent is and what they are casting—than simply putting someone on focus and endlessly spamming arena/focus target macros.
Of course, this is just my personal opinion. I am not a Rank 1 player, so I am not claiming to have the ultimate answer about that kind of macro and mechanics. But I still believe there is more skill involved in manually following the fight, reacting to what is happening in the arena or in the world, and switching targets when needed to interrupt a cast or apply crowd control.
The current level of reliance on arena and focus target macros feels like too much.

Well, I think that covers everything I wanted to say.

Sorry for the wall of text, but this topic is genuinely important to me, and I believe it is important to many of you as well. That’s why I wanted to explain my thoughts in as much detail as possible.

I would really like to hear your opinions and thoughts on this.

I don’t play with addons and never did. However, I understand why people like and want them. But I think there’s a middle ground personally. I think addons became so powerful and so intuitive that it took away any iota of player awareness and skills required to be successful because most players just awaited for a foghorn to blare in their ear rather than appropriately observe the unfolding of the matchup. I didn’t like this. And I thought it was lame.

I understand theoretically why Blizzard did what they did, but as true to form, Blizzard executed the goal poorly, and quite a few addons that I think were harmless, positive or acceptable were caught up in the culling. They certainly need to revisit their endgame goals here.

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I agree that there were addons that provided an unfair advantage, but I think the discussion is more about having a basic level of information available to players.

For example, tracking important enemy buffs — even something as simple as a clear visual animation for abilities like Ice Block or Divine Shield — or displaying diminishing returns. These things don’t play the game for you; they simply make important information more visible.

I also used an addon that showed icons next to incoming damage, indicating which spell caused the damage I received. It was very informative, but it didn’t give me any real advantage over another player. I’m not asking Blizzard to bring back every addon or anything that automates decision-making. I just think the game needs a reasonable baseline of essential information built into the UI.

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No hate but the team making Glad/Legend essentially free this season flies in the face of the reasons for addon removal.

I get the rationale in pve but it doesn’t translate to pvp, because there is a real need for this info.

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Oh, to be clear, I agree with both of you. I just think Blizzard saw what addons were turning into, and in their typical myopic approach, did a broad swing and wiped out everything. Which was foolish. I’m more stating that I think addons were starting to blur the line between providing vital and necessary information (good) to essentially playing the game for you with the amount of alerts and elimination of situational awareness because of it (bad).

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Ye I couldn’t figure why people were bothered by weak auras when Gladilissa? I think? Has existed for over a decade. The one that yells out enemy CDs.

Like you I’m sick of the half measures and crap replacements for some add-ons.

  1. the game has changed now everyones on the same level playing field, you cant cheese it as much and be lazy with addons telling you everything that happens.
  2. DRs are in the default arena frames now - no excuses!
  3. damage meters dont affect your gameplay at all if you play the game 100% properly
  4. removing macros is a terrible idea(this is basically dumbing down the game, making it unnecessarily more difficult(imagine no target party1/party2 macros for healers, are we really going to remove those?)).
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This post reads like a 3rd grader trying wow for the first time and told to summarize it in a balanced essay that doesn’t take a side or have any opinion

Unless you plan on being in some off line tournament, everything is fair game

People will hate that but it’s the truth. People will squeeze out all recourses to obtain the most information at any given time

Could break every addon, disable aura tracking at all and you’d still have fdks going wtf how did they know how to disarm me on my burst when they turn into into the lich king with remorseless covering half the map

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Agree, but I think it’s worth adding that that cut both ways and honestly produced a lot of bad players as well. Players popping CDs regardless of what was happening. Not aware of their positioning. Not aware if their healer is in CC.

Years ago I played with someone who needed help in arena and they had every addon running known to man. I watched some videos from them and the amount of addons they had running could give just about anyone a seizure. They couldn’t even parse any good information from it.

Addons should be able to provide information in a way that any player can easily digest what’s happening. Be it a sound or a visual queue, what the player does with that information is what’s important. It’s overly annoying that people think (not suggesting you here) obfuscating information is good and it takes skill to find that information. Hiding key events behind 11x11 px icons is awful design and yet it’s what the base UI offers.

It’s funny, when you compare PvE to PvP, key events in PvE are marked by massive visual and audible queues. A huge green circle on the ground. A massive arrow on your head. 2-3 seconds of heads up on a cast and so on. Meanwhile when crucial events happen in PvP it’s often times very tough to see what’s going on OR it’s even happening off screen. There needs to be a better middle zone in there where information is reliable and accessible but it’s not telling you what to do.

That was already the case though. Addons were accessible to everyone and the game was built around them. No one was failing at the game for lack of addons.

From what I can see, everyone is pretty much exactly where they were prior. Good players are still good and bad players are still bad. So what exactly was gained?

The damage meters were and are for data collection. What happened? When did it happen? What action was taken? All of that. The game is worse off right now because useful information is missing. We don’t know exactly what happened. Death logs are missing information. Outside of logging every fight and parsing it later, you’re left not knowing. Changing things on the fly isn’t happening.

How do you do my fellow classic gamer

I’m new here. Teehee.

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I think the current level of addons is kinda perfect. Covers the basic things and nothing super egregious.

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I don’t think it’s bad, but it’s not great either. Details as we had it prior with comprehensive death logs and a way to see total CC and who was targeted. A little bit less restriction on some of the addon customizations for things like Bigdebuffs. Just being able to see things what I can dispel/purge on a target with a bit more ease. Better portrait controls. Wouldn’t take much.

I’m fine with bringing everything back as it was though.

It’s nice that you don’t benefit from sitting there for 10 hours writing custom alerts/timers.

What happened to meters was tragic, though, but at least that’s something that’ll be worked on over the course of the next 3 years.

We know. But it was super over the top last season. The damage calc stuff is unfortunate but isn’t that big of a deal. You can get most of the info you need from it or combat logs. And most of the things that aren’t available were mainly used to flame teammates.

Everything you should be allowed to do, you can do with current ui and addons.

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Shocker, people can play without addons and the game feels better and more natural when they’re limited.

Weak auras and dbm were not good for the game at all.

95% of weakauras functionality was just buff/proc tracking or putting big icons of ability CDs in the middle of your screen, all of which exists

And DBM was built into the game

:dracthyr_nervous_animated: