[Community Council] Dual Spec, But Different [Fedback Needed!]

Compared to TBCC the retention was vastly superior. Look, we have factual, provable data that #nochanges was far more successful than #somechanges. Both the in-game numbers and the atmosphere of the forums demonstrate this. It should have been obvious to Blizz to begin with that trying to cater to the outspoken 1% entitled players wasn’t going to be good for the game or the community. Retail has taught that lesson long ago.

So it’s hard for me to take these types of conversation seriously. Because it is a 100% waste of time. No matter what changes Blizzard makes, those players seeking those changes will complain. And they’ll complain even louder because once Blizz starts catering to them, all the more reason to complain even louder. And so on and so on and now it’s the same toxic environment of Modern WoW. Whereas a #nochanges stance has the very simple fallback position of: this is authentic, deal with it. And players did in Classic. Much moreso than TBCC where they just bolted in vast numbers.

I don’t expect you personally to understand any of this. As I said, I remember your Wall of No days. And your posts from the creation of this forum and how you’ve been wrong every single step of the way on every single topic, be it AV or boosts, or whatever. Literally proven wrong on every stance you’ve taken. While I commend the unending confidence in the face of overwhelming failure, it has grown a bit sad.

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And #nochanges failed.

It saw a massive drop in subs which is exactly what people not looking through the thickest of rose colored glasses expected. Deal with it.

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Isn’t the council just a meme anyway?

It’s existed for 9 days but what has it influenced or changed?

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See my other threads… I’m not impressed.

And their response?

Impossible to say since #nochanges never happened.

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Indeed, not only did we have things like layering, the #nochanges crowd also forced an awful version of batching into the game that both sucked in general and also wasn’t consistent with vanilla.

Actually, it failed in part because the meta sheep had to exploit everything they could. That forced changes.


“No changes will recreate the same experience we have in vanilla” was doomed before classic even launched.


I’d support a zone-into arena/BG spec if the devs were capable of holding the line, which I doubt they would once Pandora’s Box is opened. Regarding the lack of PvP participation, with the state of honour/AP rates and rewards, I think the reason that there is a lack of participation has more to do with a system that feels unrewarding than a 100g cost to spec back and forth.

Sorry that the thread has veered away from PvP specific Dual spec, but I enjoy playing a version of the game that has spec identity beyond class identity. I like people saying they’re fury warriors or resto shamans or affliction warlocks. I like there being a weight to asking someone to switch their spec even if just for a single raid. I value the research/planning investment incentive that a single spec creates.

There is not another version of this game that will not have dual spec. Let the people who don’t like it enjoy the expansion that didn’t have it. You can do quests at max level and farm 50g in 30m or less, you can do a better farm and have it done in 10m. It is not burdensome.

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Again, it didn’t fail. It was wildly successful. The #somechanges is what has falied. Also, a very, very small minority of players on the forums is not representative of the playerbase. Now, you could argue that the entitled, crybaby meta sheep 1% on the forums are a higher percentage of the playerbase in TBCC, because Blizz did drive away so many players who wanted an authentic experience.

So is the ‘solution’ going forward to just appeal to the same entitled Retail playerbase that ruined the game the first time? Maybe there’s no drawing back the casual masses because Blizz already tarnished the experience and drove them away…for the second time in the game’s history.

What was the retention rate of Classic?

Yes, everything you just typed I agree with. You put it into words far better than I think I did. I could get this entire response tattooed on my forehead in highlighter orange.

This is my main concern, that and the dev time going into implementing what has to be a somewhat convoluted zone-in-only pvp spec.

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How’s that now?

So Blizzard didn’t make changes due to world buffs, AV nonsense, dungeon farms and griefing? Everything was left as-is?

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Pick a side of the fence and stick with it. This “middle ground” mentality is an attempt to make everyone happy which ultimately results in no one being happy.

They should just copy dual spec from wrath. If you don’t want to use the 2nd build outside BGs/arena, or at all, that’s your choice.


IF that’s the case then why made this thread at all?


An excellent question.

Maybe they’ll bring warforging and titanforging to TBC while they’re at it.

They act like they get to call all the shots.


Because I speak for more than just myself. Would you rather me only post what I personally want?
I also recognize that DS could be good for the health of the game. Doesn’t mean I have to want or demand it, though.

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I agree- honestly, I was thinking about making a deman- oops, I mean, suggestion for the new post-wotlk talent trees and LFR to be added for SWP. Maybe a little bit of transmog if we’re feeling brave

I think you better represent yourself.

That’s probably why I avoid sweeping generalizations and phrased as much as I could in the OOP as “I think xyz” and not “We think” or “The playerbase thinks” etc.

Except for this, I guess, but that sentence still looks accurate to me. :man_shrugging: