Wait there’s people that argue that SV was melee-centric and unpopular in vanilla? Cringeee.
While I’d like to see RSV come back i’d rather it not come back in the choice of a talent. Druids can have 4 specs…why can’t we just get an RSV spec back? I don’t think molding it into MSV would be good at all.
The other option being remove MSV altogether and revamp it as RSV…however in that case you are doing a complete redesign anyways so it would make sense to just add it as another spec.
survival was never melee focused. in classic the game was designed with a role play / real life issue that you cannot shoot a bow when glued to someone thus the “dead zone” was created. then from that they had to figure out abilities that would work for the hunter to deal a smudge of damage, clip the wings to slow and disengage back to RANGE to perform hunter attacks.
ranged survival reached its final form and was polish to a mirror at the end of mop. and it should of stayed that way. changing it to full on rogue wannabe melee was a mistake and one of the longest running jokes this game has ever seen.
hunter in general is now one of the longest running jokes; since legion.
Nope, you are just one of those people that can’t get opinion and fact straight. Classic is that way if you want to play ranged survival. Go nuts. I personally think you are just an ego maniac who derails every single thread you participate in. Every. Single. One.
I made this thread I decide the topic of discussion
Because somehow, no matter how many people it may satisfy and that it is already wholly technically possible, 4th specs are only permitted to split roles, and melee and ranged DPS are apparently never worth splitting except by class (except, of course, all the times they’re on the same class).
If that seems like refusing a 4th spec on the basis that it’s a 4th spec (as opposed to intending a revision to the 3 specs as to, say, support twice the number of current major themes across them without muddling what’s already available), it’s because you’re right; it makes no sense.
The topic you set for this thread:
The topic you consistently fall back to:
Unless the latter is a necessary and heavily featured topic among the Community Council’s discussions, you’d seem to have broken from your own topic of discussion.
…Or is this again in the sense that what is permissible is simply whatever you say it is at the given moment?
bepples is like sisyphus; doomed ever and always to push and push and push and ultimately never get anywhere. if it were me though i’d just force him to rework and improve melee survival
Seriously? You’re dragging me on the forums behind my back because I have an opinion that’s not the same as yours?
What’s wrong with you?
Get. Help.
It’s not a matter of opinion.
You’re making a specific and incorrect claim about SV’s standing in its ranged days. I even posted proof. You come back with nothing but “nuh uh” and relying on your own patchy memory.
If you’re sick of hearing from me maybe you should admit to being wrong and move on instead of doubling down on an obvious lie.
This thread is now property of:
‘The Shadowy Cabal of Spear Hunters’
©Numenorean/Vindictive
Adherance to your tenure with RSV circa late 08’ thru 15’, will produce no net friction between us–but stay out of the narrative concerning Survival’s 04’ thru mid 08’ era.
Um, are you guys seriously trying to tell another player that he isn’t allowed to partake in the discussion at all?
I don’t think you guys should be going down this road. If his gruff and blunt posts bother you this much, just ignore him.
Much better than attempting to tell him “don’t bother posting here, you’re not welcome.” It does nothing but feed the fire that multiple people started (so there’s no use pointing fingers).
I’ve given up on attempting to understand the discussion on the vanilla spec trees. English is not my native language, and somehow you’ve constructed your posts in such a way that you make my eyes cross in confusion trying to decode them. I’ve read them multiple times, and I keep getting a headache. I’m sorry that I couldn’t partake with the discussion. 
(But seriously, folks. Not a good idea to attempt to dictate who is “welcome” or not. Public forums, after all.)
Oh. So I’m not allowed an opinion, nor am I allowed to dictate the context of what I say?
What I’m sick of is you not getting the response you want from me, and then running around talking crap about me behind my back.
GROW UP!
And for the record, I wouldn’t even BE HERE had you not drug me into the conversation.
You’re still evading.
The point is that ranged SV was a popular spec. That isn’t a matter of opinion. That’s a provable fact. You’ve seen the evidence.
You don’t just get to decide a perfectly objective and by-the-numbers matter is up to interpretation.
Well, you can actually do that, but people will laugh at you for it.
Okay. You know what? I’m done.
I don’t care. I didn’t care that much to begin with. The whole conversation has used up what little I had in the tank. I called the store that sells “I Care” and they’re out and not due to get a truck in until next week.
You realize we’re basically competing in the internet special olympics and it doesn’t matter which of us wins, because we both wind up looking like a pair of idiots? Can we just please not?
Seriously, just stop.
You’re only reacting this way because you know you’re wrong.
Next time don’t post misinformation online, maybe?
@Watermist. English is my native language and some of these posts are very involved and somewhat convoluted in the details that I’m having trouble following some of the points. Don’t feel bad, because it isn’t just you. Lol.
I also did not play in Vanilla and have no experience with SV and little experience with MM so I have no opinion in the matter, but I was curious and trying follow along. I’ve given up because I’m not invested enough to put the effort into breaking down all the points and counterpoints.
It’s interesting to see all the different points of view, but I agree that the personal stuff should stay out of it.
I really likehow you compared hunter with locks cause I had a simillar thought and if the class was to be reworked I really hope the deves would look at how lock works in therms of class and spec identity which I do feel is lacking in hunter =( Not to mention all the problems with the class we already know like like of engaging game play dumb talents like bombardmend that exist just to tax a poin out of us instead of making trick shots work with 2 targers, Aspec of the Wild being the most weird CD that seems to have no place in the game and Surv being a melee when LITERALLY MOST HUNTERS WANT RANGED SURVIVAL BACK but do the devs even play hunter and care about what hunters would like to play?
Okay, so until I answer each and every one of your previous points, you’re gonna go “NaNaNaNa…”? Sure.
I opted out because your intentions towards the “debate” was to argue your personal view of how the SV category was supposed to be played by looking at a select few of its talents in a vacuum, rather than as part of the class as a whole, and the overarching design intentions of said class.
“Intercede”? You made an argument as part of a reply that was posted on a public discussion forum…
If you want to have a private 1-on-1 discussion with someone, have it somewhere where that’s actually the intended platform for it.
And like I said, the individual talent categories weren’t designed primarily for a specific type of content in the game. As per what the devs said about general class design philosophies at the time, the categories were designed to further the class throughout the game in its entirety, not just one part of it.
You argue that the SV category back then supported the idea of a melee-focused profile, even though, throughout most of the game, that style of play simply would not suffice, relative to the main role of the class as a damage dealer. Relying on Raptor Strike alone in group-based PvE content(or world content) for the purpose of damage, just wasn’t a valid option.
And for the record, an ability that requires niche/situational triggers(the enemy hitting you) to be usable at all, isn’t what you’d consider reasonable means of dps throughput.
I’ve already adressed your point of the icon itself, in a previous reply. Talent category icons were not intrinsic to the overarching design intents of each category. They were all just referencing some of the parts of the class which the category focused on.
Feral - Had a bear paw icon. Very intrinsic to those who went into Feral for the purpose of focusing on Cat Form - damage, isn’t it?
Beast Mastery - Had the Tame Beast icon. Literally nothing in the BM category focused on the process of taming beasts…
Marksmanship - Had an icon of an arrow hitting a bullseye. The ability within the class which shared that icon was Volley, arguably the sole ability with the least ties to the idea of sharpshooting. Ironically, the only ability or talent we had that actually focused on having better aim back then was ‘Surefooted’, found in the SV category.
Speaking of, another class which also had that same icon was Rogue, in the Combat category. Considering how the talent in question; Precision, increased hit chance with melee weapons, I do like how that sounds, based on what the actual icon shows. You’d think that Rogues, who could equip and use ranged/thrown weapons, would have that icon representing a talent which improved the hit/crit chance or damage of their ranged weapons…
Arcane - Had the Arcane Intellect icon. Nothing within that category buffed Arcane Intellect directly, or built on the idea of arcane primarily being a support/buff spec. It even held a talent which improved Wand damage. Not just Arcane wands, but wands in general.
Holy - Both had the same icon. Last I checked, the priest class did not have any ability with that same icon.
Demonology - Had an icon that was shared between the abilities/talents ‘Sense Demons’ and ‘Demonic Embrace’. ‘Sense Demons’ was an ability used to track demons on the minimap. Demonic Embrace improved the warlocks stamina in exchange for spirit. Neither of which had much to do with the overarching purpose of the category as a whole, based on the role as a damage dealer.
Fury - The icon representing this category ironically is only shared with an icon found in the Protection category, in terms of the warrior class. It is however, more common within the paladin class. For the warrior class, the icon in question most likely was a reference to the former beta class ability; Inner Rage, which was removed in 1.1.0. Either way, the incentive to build Rage was vital to the entire class, not just Fury.
If you dig more, you could probably find several more cases such as these. Where icons aren’t anything but mere references, for example to parts of each talent category, in theme or gameplay, if even that.
Do you see now why I find this argument to have major flaws in terms of logic/merit(?):
I was the least played raid spec in the game behind Gladiator Warrior before it was changed to melee. What were you saying again?
Follow your own advice?
Do you have any self awareness? Like, any at all?
Feel free to check further back than literally the last patch of its existence, a patch where they broke it to the point where it did less damage than most tanks were capable of.
Also, “Gladiator Warrior” has NEVER been a spec in this game. It was a single talent which was available to protection warriors during WoD.