The biggest brains of blizzard development team came up with 5% leech and 3% avoidance as party utility every who-knows how often, and passive 4% dodge
Ahahahahahahahhahah 
4 Likes
I have an idea for MM Hunters, next Alpha update, lets just push Multi-shot to the END of the talent tree.
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they made survival of the fittest into a defensive cd and changed the tenacity pet cooldown which is pretty darn good
I’ve mained hunter for 15 years and this is the first time I won’t be playing them…they look soooooooo boring, talents are just bland, like you say, just skills that you learn while leveling. Also MM has a lot of points that are just a % dmg increase to baseline abilities, there is no fun in that. On the other side, look at the Warlock talent trees, holy sh*t. They look so fun.
I think I’m done trying to fulfill the Archer dream…class design looks so boring and seems like is not changing.
2 Likes
I’ve been ruminating on this since posting earlier. I’m now quite certain the reason RSV isn’t an option is because they know nobody would play melee. When I realized this I laughed so, so hard. So hard. They’d cut off their nose to spite their face.
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it’s always good to take breaks and try different things. i’ve had to abstain from dh myself because i don’t enjoy being a sinful brand bot and there being such a wide gap between venthyr and all the other 3 covenants
Feel like BM has too many multi-point talents… and below proves it!
For comparison (based on wowhead calc as of 9-Aug-22)
BM has 16 -2 points, 2 - 3 points - 38 total
SV has 15 - 2 points , 1 - 3 point - 33 total
MM has 14 - 2 points - 28 total
Assassination - 8 - 2 poins, 3 - 3points - 25 total
Balance has 12 - 2 points - 24 total
Frost mage - 9 - 2 points, 2 - 3 points - 24 total
Feral - 6 - 2 points, 4 - 3 points - 24 total
Unholy - 8 - 2 points, 2 - 3 points - 22 total
Elemental, Frost DK, Fire, Devastation all have 10 - 2 points - 20 total each
Enhance - 8 - 2 points - 16 total
Arcane, Outlaw, Sub - 6 - 2 points - 12 total each
Ret - 5 - 2 points - 10 total
All three hunters specs have this bloat, BM is the worse of every DPS spec atm.
6 Likes
Yes i meant current MSV, should’ve specified.
That’s fair and I do like that name a lot better. I just feel like Survival wouldn’t be an appropriate name but that entirely depends on the hypothetical direction Blizzard would never take as they crash SV into the ground.
It’s almost like people really care about this 
RIP the “get served cr*p and say thank you” mentality 
NGL I’m a Rexxar fanboy, he’s cool as hell, but I’m still not a fan of MSV.
They should just outsource the class design to the players at this point. They already outsource listening to players to select Community Council people and bug testing to paying players 
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All Hunter specs have way to many 2 points talents, most of them for a % damage increase or just a simple buff to the core ability, nothing creative or adding an interaction to a core ability with the talent.
`My best guest is, they just don’t know what new talents give to hunters and talent points need to be spent somewhere, so talents that could be 1 point for a 10% dmg increase are being devided by 2. 
Big oof
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Still have 9 points devoted to passive Aimed Shot damage increases. Like, I can see one for crit chance, one for damage, one for damage on high health targets. Maybe 1 for a proc. But 9? Seriously? Almost a third of the points we can take can be dumped into passive increases on one spell.
Somehow the warlock trees make me even sadder. There is legitimately a world where MM hunters never change their class talents. Maybe I’ll shuffle points between Improved Tranq Shot, Improved Traps, and Natural Mending, but other than that we’re pretty much locked in. Maybe there’s one boss the entire expansion that Steel Trap is good on?
There are plenty of historical abilities to work with, still waiting for them to show up. Plenty of interesting things pets can do besides take 25% more healing from Mend Pet.
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I mean, the worst part of Sentinel and it’s sub-talent is how often it’s useable is based on how much focus is spent. So if you want Sentinel you don’t want Imp Arcane Shot, but you need to take Imp Arcane Shot to get Rapid Fire.
This x1000. There could be a number of talents that empower your pet, procs from pet crits empower you, procs from pet crits empower other abilities, pet crits cause bleeds or debuffs. There are SO MANY THINGS. Instead it’s all “How can we make Barbed Shot actual BS?”
The really wild thing to me is the designers actually brainstormed ideas and this is what they came up with. Not the general function of the talent trees, but the state of Hunter over the past 3ish expansions and said, “Yep! This is working great! Lets keep doing this.” To be clear, it’s not BAD. But it’s also not really good, either. The annoying thing is I think they’re WELL aware of how much garbage we’ll tolerate, and how a little dangle of a carrot will keep us coming back for more.
I would use as an example the ability for demo Warlocks(another pet based class) “Hold this for me”, The Felguard hurls his axe to a target locations, it does damage when it lands, it keeps doing damage every X seconds AND while unarmed, he literally punches people…how cool is that?
Why cannot hunter pets have some abilities that either interact with the hunter or have additional effects that give some flavor to the class?
Like you say, there are some many things that can be done to give a lot of flavor to hunters, but lets focus on Barbed Shot, a single ability that will proc 35 different effects lol, or better, lets give Aimed Shot another dmg increase node. 
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The further into the alpha we go the more clear it becomes that the Hunter is more or less ignore by everyone with an ounce of talent and that all the focus is on every other class. Nothing defends how all the other classes make the new talent system look awesome while the Hunter trees literally just makes me want to keep the old system… Our talent trees are 90% what we have now but we cant pick it all due to inflated costs.
The state of Hunter and feral spec is just so bad I honestly feel unmotivated to even pick up DF. Always mained my Hunter but this is probably the worst its ever looked by far.
And its not changes per say that makes me depressed. Its the obvious lack of passion and clear design vision for the class and specs that makes me mad. How can you take a class so full of fantasy and history and manage to fudge it up so bad as this so called “designer/developer” have done?
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It is so so bad. All other classes get amazing trees that are well built and heavily lets you adapt your playstyle while Also getting new interesting things.
And Hunter is literally a bad mesh of the last 2-3 expansions just broken down into talents and still is so small that they need to add god awful x% damage talents all over, and still need to inflate it to get us to spend points.
The state of the Hunters are really god awful and the last few weeks have clearly shown that they are not competent or passionate enough to get Hunter to a acceptable state before launch. Will most likely be the first expansion in 17 years i wont touch Hunter, which most likely means i wont waste my money on it at all. Luckily there is plenty of other good games out there.
The most laughable parts of all this is when they give us a 2 point talent tgat grants 4% dodge. Like, WHAT THE HELL?? Your telling me you cant come up with something better then 4% dodge? Same for sentinel, leech and avoidance. Really? That makes ZERO difference. In pve its so niche that your going to have that 1 build with sentinel and you use it only for 1 fight. Then you forget about it.
Tbh, the hunter trees are so boring, uninspiring, and arguably the worst class trees in the game. By far.
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Well, the time has come. Looking on wowhead its just talent position changes and tuning (mostly nerfs). This means that the innovative stage has passed and unless it is an outlining issue, they probably wont be changing talents much more. Just tuning.
So what we see is what we get.
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Its the same worthless design mentality all thru the class. They focus solely on one ability and then you have 1-2 additional abilities and then thats it, done!
MM= full focus on aimed shot and some slight focus on rapid fire and arcane shot/multi shot.
BM= full focus on barbed shot with some slight focus on kill command and multi shot.
SV= full focus on wildfire bombs and carve/butchery or mongoose bite and kill command. Then some very slight focus on… Nothing really.
Its so so bad its laughable. When i discuss my Hunter with friends who Also play they think im joking. Its so bad compared to every other class and spec in the game!
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I just looked at the warlock trees and while destro is a little bland, the other two look real good. Aff might be a little too involved, but it always is that way.
Rogues, warlocks, warriors, shams, all received good trees.
Priest, pally, evoker, druid are ok-ish,
Hunters, mages got ripped off.
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I agree that the Hunter class got shafted real good! I dont know mages so i cant say but might be, Also feral is in a rough spot but at least their class is Very good.
And I think priest looks good and probably plays well enough. Paladin looks amazing, been dabbling in paladin on and off and the trees look really well done, not tested them though. And evoker perhaps looks a bit cut but its completely new so that is ok, and apparently it plays very well and is quite refreshing.
Its just so infuriating that its not just one spec that looks a bit bad for Hunters (as for feral for example) but the whole class looks garbage… They for sure put the wrong man up for the job there. Or he is a shaman die hard and simply doesnt care about Hunter at all. It sure smells like “I will put in some time And effort to be able to say I’ve done my job”! But there is zero true effort, passion or genuine love for the class seen in it what so ever. Saddens me. I dont want to skip DF because it looks good Generally but to be forced to change main or stop playing because they do such a sheet job? Sigh