I’m the immature and delusional one alright 
How do you even have the time or energy? Geez
This is the problem when you are so fanatic. You kind of miss the whole point.
I have never advocated that MSV was or is a success or that it’s better than RSV. That is how you RSV people like to spin it to make it easier to say I (we I guess) are wrong and you are right.
What I say over and over again to a freaking wall (that’s how it feels talking to you RSV:ers) is that I am tired of you turning any feedback post into “MSV bad RSV must come back”, instead of just giving concrete feedback on the current SV and DF alpha. This is not exclusively of course but to the majority. And it’s just getting real old and counterproductive. Because Blizzard obviously doesn’t agree with you and to be honest it’s perhaps time to accept that and look ahead.
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This argument that blizz would just click off of the convo bc its a rsv/msv discussion is null and not true. IF they even come here to read things, and they see the drive for rsv, perhaps that changes things.
But you don’t want that. Your a white knighter. You cant think for yourself, whatever blizz tells you is good is what you argue for. This is why your a joke.
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No one is arguing for cata/mop rsv back, most if not all want lk rsv back. Major difference.
You cant really advocate for more “pet relationship” in df with surv. In alpha, surv is turning into melee bm and its a mess.
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For the rest of them,
Blizz has been dumping countless resources into alpha msv and its still a complete mess. It still isnt as good as the initially released sham or rogue trees by far.
Whats going to happen is blizz is going to realize msv is just a resource black hole, and when the time comes to move on the spec will be left unfinished, like always, and it will sit that way for another couple of xpacs.
If blizz would have went with rsv and started anew, we would have a tree thats 10x better then the garbage we have now consisting of half-way thought of ideas of the 1%.
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Hmm…
It took a while as I had forgotten which topic I posted it in, but here is the link: Is Melee Hunter going to be removed? - #336 by Ghorak-laughing-skull
I couldn’t say what prompted him/them to say what they said in that interview, but you’d think that the lead class dev and senior producer at the time would know enough about a class to be able to make accurate claims about its history. And yes, this is a bold statement of mine, but like has been said already, it’s enough to log into classic to find out that “no, the SV category in classic/vanilla did not promote the idea that you wanted to focus primarily on melee combat”. The “vanilla survival experience” did not have its roots in melee gameplay being the primary focus.
And secondly, Raptor Strike wasn’t even a SV ability. It was a class-wide situational ability you wanted to use, by design, whenever the enemy got too close for you to be able to fire your ranged weapon.
Yeah…
Yep, agreed. Again, you’d think someone who is that involved in the game’s design and development, you’d think that he would know the history of this class. But really…something like this isn’t even hard to look up. Why would he even come out and say those things, knowing that they’re so easily disproven?
I would argue not, that it isn’t fair to say that.
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You’d have to base that statement on the idea that it simply wouldn’t be possible to design a modern spec, based on the core of old SV/RSV.
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You haven’t checked the concept I linked you. Like it or not, it definitely wouldn’t play like current MM, or what MM looks like so far in alpha development for DF.
You could bring back a few of its signature abilities/effects. But it wouldn’t be possible to give it any depth or further distinguishing features. Not to mention how it would negatively impact the spec you decide to put those new talents in, seeing as neither BM nor MM promotes the idea of what RSV was/could be.
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At this point, seeing how bad msv is in alpha, i would NOT mix anything.
Just give us our 4th spec.
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No, I did not miss your point. I responded to the things you actually wrote.
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I know you refuted Bepples claim that you do not in fact twist the words of other posters, but here you do so yet again. Example: When did I, in my reply to you, ever claim that you think MSV is a success, or better than RSV?
In the first section, I responded to your claim of how we, the RSV-side, “think that old RSV was perfect”. In section two, I simply wrote down why I think the development of current SV proves, even more so, how hypocritical the devs were, when they accused RSV of being too similar to MM. I also made a comparison to other pure dmg classes/specs to further my point.
In the third section, I refuted your statement that “the RSV-side is stupid, delusional, and narrow-minded for wanting them to return MoP RSV exactly as it was”, even though none of us have actually done so. And yes, you actually said that.
I also pointed out how you commented in my topic of what I wanted for a modern version of RSV. Meaning you do know that your previous statement of “MoP RSV” isn’t actually true.
And like I told Elhyas in the other topic, there are plenty(dozens) of SV topics with recent activity, that haven’t been “turned into MSV bad RSV must come back”.
Blizzard doesn’t agree with a lot of things, until they do…
And as you’re already aware, I am in fact “looking ahead”.
Imagine asking someone for something, they tell you no, and then you spend the next 6 years derailing any legitimate discussion of anything related to what you asked about.
Talk about self-centered, entitled, and spoiled!
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Yes, indeed so. Only problem is that the lot doing it are so fanatic about it (or whatever you want to call it) that they just go on a tantrum if you point it out… It’s like talking to toddlers. Tiresome but often amusing. But don’t expect anything to be reasonable or to make sense.
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SO wait…because I like to play SV as it stands, because I been playing it since they switched it, I support what the devs vision is because, yeah its their game, they designed it, and look, you are playing it too…and because of this, I’m a white knighter(lol) I am a joke. (LOLOLOL)
All of this coming from someone who NEVER posts on a Hunter. Lol ok. They always say when one has no merits of a argument, one must turn to insults. Well the jokes on you.
MSV is here. Now. Current. Even was stated just a couple of weeks ago. Yes, a Melee Hunter can still shoot as well. Hmmm RSV was chosen for a reason. While you may not agree, YOU ARE NOT THE DESIGNER! (shocking I know…) It was chosen by the people who work for Blizzard, by the people who develop for Blizzarrd, and even if the picked it out of a hat, guess what, that’s Blizzards call. No matter how much you whine and cry and insult people here, its still going to MSV now, in the DF expac, and in the many seasons that come with it.
IF Blizzard decided tomorrow to change it again, guess what? THEY CAN! ITS THEIR GAME! If they did people have a choice, play it or don’t play it. So please, keep going with this nonsense. Keep hoping and praying so you can finally say I TOLD YA! I KNOW WHATS BEST FOR BLIZZARD!! Just please stop boring the rest of us. Its been old, but now its just pathetic.
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Literally the entire RSV/MSV contention is based on people wanting the ranged aspect back, I don’t feel like what expansion it’s from matters at the moment. Don’t put the cart in front of the horse, we/they should worry about getting the ranged back then the gameplay first before debating what era it comes from.
That’s a fair assertion for surv being Diet BM. There should be more flavor between the specs.
Lol. People in charge mess up all the time. ESPECIALLY Blizzard in the last few years. What a weird and naive defense.
You act like there’s no serious feedback given. There is and it’s very detailed. They’re acting on it promptly now as opposed to BFA and SL where they did less than bare minimum but it’s evident they still don’t have a designer who’s enthusiastic about Hunters as they have trouble coming up with new ideas.
As for Survival: suggestions to make it range is talking about how to improve Hunters.
Ah yes this is how game feedback works: any criticism is invalid because the designers are legally allowed to do whatever they want. Imagine having this mindset.
No, it isn’t fair to say that.
Suggesting RSV is actually the most productive and concrete feedback one can give for the spec. If Blizzard doesn’t agree with it they can be content with SV being a dumpster fire every expansion. They made their bed and they can lie in it. It’s not my job to feed into their delusions and help them out with their failed spec concept. Maybe the fact that they do such a bad job with it all the time should undermine their confidence that they made the right choice.
I think most in fact want something based on MoP SV which was WotLK SV but heavily refined. But in reality no one is expecting a complete copy-paste of a prior iteration of the spec onto modern WoW. They want something based on it.
Almost like taking away someone else’s spec.
If melee SV were actually a success we probably wouldn’t be here saying they should bring RSV back. One main reason the discussion lives on is because it’s such a consistent and glaring failure. So they spent all this time and effort on something that didn’t work and keep tripling down on it and wasting even more time and effort.
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I did look at the links, briefly admittedly since I’ve been busy today. My comments were meant to be directed at old RSV style, I would love to see what a modern RSV hunter would look like.
My argument for possibly melding RSV into MM is more of a compromise than anything. I think RSV being a 4th spec would be a great idea. Like a shadow hunter or an arcane archer for a more common fantasy troupe.
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I stand firmly against the idea of merging rsv into mm or any other spec. Mostly because it just makes a mess of things and blizz never can get things right. Secondly, if they were too do it with mm they will never tune the rsv build to be viable, it would only be for flavor bc if it was tuned higher then mm then that would piss off the mm playerbase and essentially turn it into rsv. Also, by merging it with mm it would only incorrectly reinforce the notion that rsv is just a version of mm, which is CLEARLY incorrect.
The rsv vs msv discussion is substantially fuelled by how much of a failure msv has been over the years. No one in their right mind can stand here and argue that at any point (not including overtuned times bc thats not legitimate) that msv has ever been a success. I mean, look at right now. Blizz pushed msv tree out and it was the worst out of all of them by an extreme amount. It is the smallest one. Etc… Yea, blizz is working on it but how many revisions has it received yet it still doesnt even match up against any of the rogue trees when they first released? Lets not forget that while we are enjoying decent, not great, but decent communication with blizz that hasnt been seen in a long time, one can clearly argue that their increased activity is due to Microsoft coming in and they want to keep their jobs.
I agree that rsv, if implemented, should take a modern twist and be implemented with improved spells. This doesnt change rsv, as the base identity is still there, the base spells are there, and there is a nucleus to build upon. This is different then msv bc there is no nucleus for it. Its just a mess of talents thrown together. This is obvious as it continues to trend towards being bm melee 2.0. Blizz cant establish its identity so its going to piggy back off another spec.
As for those white knighters who complain that “its blizz’s game,” and we should blindly accept whatever they give us like they do, let us remind you that it is us, the customers, who pay for the game. Who pay their salaries. Furthermore, its us customers who provide free labor when testing in alpha and betas. If it was as you say, “blizz’s game” then they should freely deny player testing and pay game testers to test in alpha and betas, yes? Bc as you argue, customers shouldnt have an opinion.
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Let’s also remind them that Blizzard happily ignoring feedback and doing whatever they wanted led to the most disastrous years of WoW’s lifespan and the largest exodus of players it’s ever seen.
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Correct.
Blizz’s failure over the last 10 years has seen a substantial drop in subs that continues to happen today. Wow is merely a shell of what it was before and this reinforces the point that blizz makes bad choices. One of those choices is removing rsv, alienating about half of the hunter community at the time, AND led to many players to stop playing the game.
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Statistics backning your claim that 50% of Hunter players were playing survival thanks, other wise its just fancy-talk.
Also you do know that since at least cataclysm people have always hated on the current expansion just to, for some magic reason, completely turn around and shower praise over the same expansion some years later.
For example people were really upset about endgame MoP and its endless daily grind or how people literally hated legion for a large part of its duration to now look back on it like something that was very good and fun, and was better than what we have now etc. Its commonly called rose-tinted glasses. You remember the good not the bad, the brain is funny like that. It actually makes up memories.
I guess we will see if RSV is the god of Hunter specs now in wotlk:c and According to your and other pro-RSV people the players will flock to the spec in massive numbers. I highly doubt it but I’ve been wrong before. I’ll probably install it to be able to test RSV, since you guys are hyping it to the skies. We will see.
You know you can still play RSV but you have to break ToS to do it. At least some of us have played RSV very recently. So this isn’t just “fuzzy memories” or similarly patronising nonsense. I can see MoP class design concurrently to the current game and the MoP design not only holds up but is largely better; especially Survival.
As for WotLK: Yes Hunters did flock to the spec in massive numbers in 3.0 and they will do so again in WotLK classic. It’s already highly represented on the WotLK beta.
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How could one not find it funny, that Blizzard had a vision for a change in surv spec.
Then they didn’t.
And just made it mostly BM with differences.
And then met at the water cooler to talk about Ally Mcbeal.
Surv in WotLKC will be popular enough to not fall behind any of the other specs. Hunter version in that expansion had all three specs working well enough. And dual spec becomes a thing too.
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