Yes I agree but that’s not the case right now. Pets are part of our toolkit, period. The “half measure” is the compromise to letting, at the very least LW hunters, access to bloodlust if they still intend to keep these abilities tied to pets but more streamlined.
Either way my first example was to tie bloodlust to LW.
Testing Survival of the Fittest (SotF) on the PTR. With the choice node in Lone Survivor, both versions have the same cooldown. The Lone Wolf version tooltip says the CD is 3 min, but it shared a 2 min CD with the talented version. Only one can be used at a time. This makes the Lone Wolf version of SotF obsolete.
I recommend that the SotF for Lone Wolf be changed to allow for a MM Hunter w/o pet to use bloodlust instead.
When you say PTR do you mean Beta?
I do mean the PTR (testing the pre-patch 10.0.0). I don’t have Beta access. The class changes are reflected in the PTR.
Thank you, I will go try it out
try putting some feed back here, since you’ve been unhappy with the feed back others have given thus far on the beta threads.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/hunter-ptrfeedback/1330799/14
Kirapandora,
Nice to see you actually give some useful feedback on BM tree. Thank you.
Thanks, I haven’t been keeping up where the most appropriate place to leave feedback is.
To elaborate a bit further on my issue with survival lacking, well, survivability:
With the push to higher melee engagement with abilities like mongoose bite, spearhead, coordinated assault and flanking, I think there could be some simple fundamental changes that could make survival a bit more engaging and a bit tankier spec more suited for a melee spec.
If I could change things up about the spec related to this, I’d do 2 things.
This would also make the spec a bit more engaging to play in solo content. In group content, it would give some more flexibility in survivability and take some burden off healers for keeping you up, much like other melee classes have. In pvp content, we all know how it goes if you try to play survival in melee range against any other melee class. You can’t engage them for any length of time to put out damage. You will get demolished because while you might be able to keep up in damage, you are still a mail wearer with access to 1 heal on a long CD.
The defensive tools we have now are more suited for ranged specs. Turtle shuts down all offense to allow repositioning/giving a reprive from damage to help healers top you off. Exhilaration is nice, but long cooldown and limited heal. Survival of the fittest is a welcome addition to our kit, and while these are sufficient for ranged specs, a melee spec needs a bit more.
I don’t have a anything useful to say (apart from that leveling on ptr sucks). I just wanted to be the 1000th post
Lol
Good try tho!
The thing is, this is not a melee class, it’s the Hunter Class, and:
For a Classes core identity, these defensive improvements, if limited just to MSV, would be divisive. And, nothing is free.
How would the greater survivability be paid for? Traditionally, we were/are glass cannons that hit hard. No one wants to give up dps… for more survivability.
Lets be real, when your core rotation is centered around building melee strike stacks in a short amount of time frame. You’re a melee spec.
If you’re talking class fantasy, I’m not going to retread thousands of other posts since Legion to argue the range vs melee hunter architype.
Any other melee class is just as/more capable of putting out as high damage as a survival hunter without the defensive tradeoffs. Our strength is mobility and being able to have ways of kiting/evading. All I’m saying is that the DF iteration of surv is emphasizing our DPS through melee combat with abilities that require high melee engagement. More so than previous iterations of surv.
Spearhead - charge
mongoose bite - need to stay in melee to build stacks (I don’t see many surv builds using raptor strike anymore)
flanking strike - charge
coordinated assault - charge (even though this ability is centered around ranged abilities for some reason?)
Anyways I could be off base, but I think I’ve felt this way about survival for a long while now. Craven Stratagem lego absolutely carried survival for the course Shadowlands to offset our defenses, and I fear that we are going to be at a disadvantage without something to cover us on that front.
I didn’t want to clutter this thread with a massive post, so I wrote up an analysis of the biggest remaining issues I see in the Survival tree and the Hunter class tree:
Highlights:
I’d love to talk and hone these ideas if anyone has agreements/disagreements, other angles to think of, etc.
I tried to keep my suggestions as minor as possible with the hope that they could actually still be implemented at this stage in development.
Looking at the BM tree and rest of the specs why do we have so many 2 and 3 point talents? You end up having to miss core abilities or sacrifice a lot to make the spec subpar. Thrill of the hunt is 3 points why? When it is a stacking talent. Same with Stomp, Scent of Blood the talent point cost are to much. Even beast cleave should only be one talent point. Talents that give significant dmg like 20 to 40% I can get why it would be 2 points. Make the tree fun for the specs so you feel like you don’t need to miss the base line abilities that make the spec what it is and at the same time be able to experiment with new talents. Make the game fun and players will be happy break you class tree like the way you doing these Hunter specs it’s just going to be a huge disappointment to your players. Thanks
Man feral just a ton of great revisions. The dev there is understanding his playerbase really well.
At this point surv doesnt even touch feral for quality of tree. Just, no where close.
Anyways, i was able to get on the PTR and test surv. The following are what i got out if it.
Do note, this is for the bomb build with CA. This is in no specific order.
What needs fixed.
I just couldnt bring myself to try the ST build. I was already bored with the aoe rotation. I might torture myself this weekend with it.
As opposed to the current version, of not applying any SS — only refreshing it?
The difference here is window value when holding charges for burst. Carve gets 4 uses in CA. Butchery gets 6. The charge-limited burst option is for… charge-banked burst. It’s not attempting to also get the same average CDR per minute atop that, only the same or greater relative value within its synergetic builds. If you ask for sustained CDR atop that, Carve becomes a non-option and everyone is obliged to bank charges.
Applying and refreshing of course. Basically the return to the former version. With hydra only applying SS to 3 targets and the current green bomb only applying and refreshing SS on 3 targets, the use is incredibly clunky when the soft cap for aoe is 5 targets.
“If you ask for sustained CDR atop that, Carve becomes a non-option and everyone is obliged to bank charges.”
I was already under the assumption that carve was a non-option tbh. When one takes the bomb build, the goal is two-folded. 1. Reduce the cd on bombs. 2. Bursting adds by holding butchery charges and maintaining SS. That way you get the extra dmg from green bomb and you can get 3 stacks of bleed from blue bomb in multiple targets. If i am correct, then the only way carve would overtake butchery is long-term sustained 5 target cleave which is very rare.
A short-lived DF version? Again, until now, Volatile Bomb has never applied Serpent Sting. It only refreshes it, thus rewarding setup.
It’s most likely the change from refresh to application that applied this stunted target cap. Pick one or the other.
Personally, I’d sooner keep the mere refresh and not be limited to 3 enemies thus affected.
It wouldn’t be given as a choice if it wasn’t meant to be an option.
Then why would you want, atop all those advantages, for Butchery also to give more CDR than Carve does?
That is how you make non-choices.
Yes, thats what i meant, i couldnt remember if it applied but then afterwards i remembered it only refreshed. I would Def take a 5 target refresh over any 3 target bs.
There are plenty of “options” in the trees that are not really options. This is one of them. Even with carve having a better cdr for bombs doesnt mean its ever getting taken. Like i said, it woulf require consistent 5 target cleave for a long time for carve to overtake butchery. I just dont see it happening.
Now, if there was more synergy between carve and bombs in a way where damage is increased or whatever the case, the option between carve/butchery would be much more even.