[Horde]: -Literally hypermurders everyone everywhere, every year and gets away with it every time-
[Jaina]: -Does exactly one instance of greater aggression than is warranted-
[The One Horde Player]: uh??? consequences???
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Well isn’t she dating a magic dragon? If that’s not it, maybe she just took the magic from the thunder staff? Like disenchanted it and used the mats and magic energy it had to frost it up instead of electricity?
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Ok Tanoke. I’m going to drop this one here.
Horde actually -does- get Consequences.
- Garrosh and his Kor’kron were removed after a civil war.
- Grimtotem wre functionally curbstomped
- Kael’thas and his loyalists were effectively evaporated
- Forsaken have quite literally been neutered as a group with most of their former leadership in hiding or destroyed.
- Zandalar had a civil war and was sucker punched by the Alliance
- Sylvanas sure as hell isn’t leader anymore and she also had a civil war that saw her removed.
- The horde also lost any pretext of having control in Arathi
“But guys, Horde never suffers any consequences storywise.” I am so sick of it and have frankly grown numb that I just drown out anyone who actually tries to use that as a story talking point at this point.
Actual Consequences the Alliance has suffered?
Yea, Not interested in this case anymore. Claiming the Horde has suffered no consequences is the same is crying Taraujo at this point. I am frankly sick of this narrative and until the others actually start saying the Alliance shall get consequences when the Horde suffers more, not interested.
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Those are interesting ideas and they would make sense!
But until blizzard actually depicts them in some way ingame or heck even in the books/comics then I’m afraid they’re just headcannon, leaving her massive powers with no explanation. 
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Yeah nothing you’ve cited has actually done anything to limit the Horde’s power and influence or force it to acknowledge what it’s done beyond fleeting moments Saurfang wants to whine. The Grimtotem and Kael’thas weren’t even Horde, so… ???
And I get sick of the implication that the Horde’s victims are somehow being unfair when they strike back. What consequences should be faced by someone who already lost everything she cared about and even when she DID mobilize in Dalaran it was specifically because the Sunreavers were using it on behalf of the Horde?
Like, dude, we get it, you hate the Alliance and you hate any member of the Alliance that has the gall to strike back tit for tat, it’s okay
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The Alliances faces consequences every time they trust the Horde has really changed this time. I’m joking, please don’t take this too seriously. More a criticism of Blizzard lol
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grabs popcorn
No, I don’t hate the Alliance.
What I do hate is the flat onesided writing people who claim “Punish the Horde” are shamelessly peddling. The Alliance players are just the most common ones doing it. But yeah, I know, claiming that consequence should also happen to actions the Alliance takes is just -SOooooo- Hateful.
How dare I suggest that the Alliance get story that doesn’t coddle them and act like they’re spotless good guys. I’m just such a bad person for supporting the notion that just because one side was mean it doesn’t excuse the crimes about the other side.
Please, do me a favor and don’t try debating me unless you actually know, because your post tells me you don’t.
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Can we agree that Blizz is terrible about writing conflict and then failing to wrap that story up when they want to move onto the next shiny plot idea?
They write in a pretty explosion, smack some NPCs with the villain bat for it, then quit there. The Horde still feels beaten up, and the Alliance feels like no actual consequences were inflicted. Both sides are left smarting and still angry at each other, and Blizz doesn’t want to “waste” time filling in the lore to clean that mess up. (But if we’re lucky we might get a tweet or two! …that then get ignored next time they revisit that part of the world…)
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Imagine acting as if nobody has noticed how often and how passionately you want the Alliance to be hit with the horrible villain stick even worse than the Horde was.
Imagine believing eleven billion horrible war crimes is equivalent to, like, three
Imagine believing, really relieving, you will ever have the privilege of telling me what I can and can’t debate. You will never be big enough for that.
Blizzard absolutely is terrible at writing conflict, yes. I’ve played both sides and I hate how both sides are forced to be for the sake of… whatever it is the aging metalheads running the company think is still cool.
But any time it comes up, this guy demands the Alliance be made to suffer more in some absurd way. The Horde, in the narrative, are not victims; and either forcing consequences for crimes the Alliance barely committed, or just forcing it to be Blue Horde, doesn’t fix the problem.
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There were several ingame events/raids that I think blizzard expected us to see as the Alliance getting their revenge: (Siege of Dazar’alor/Lordaeron and Darkshore)
But they were unsatisfying for reasons that they really should have seen coming if they paid attention to the playerbase.
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Imagine thinking that a large portion of the people who want the Alliance to be hit with the villain stick is also the Alliance player base itself so it would give them spotlight, lore not involving the other faction immediately and spice up their own RP scene, but what do I know, I actually scoot about and frequent both communities in RP and OOC.
Imagine still claiming one side never suffers consequence when the end of various character arcs they faction enjoys is literally only consequences, but it’s not enough because it didn’t render the red one without anything to derive enjoyment from, even though BfA came pretty damn close since the blue faction was at least given lip service.
Imagine still thinking bad actions from one is a total excuse of bad actions from your favored people and that they should have no actual story consequences cause it would be ‘mean’.
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Until the Alliance has a shift in leadership(whether in who runs things or in how those leaders think) that distrusts the Horde’s ability to be peaceful then we will never see an Alliance that takes on the driving force of a faction conflict.
Until the Horde actually shows real growth that isn’t just lip service to some idea that they’ve changed then they will continue to be the aggressors and continue falling into the same old “We have to change. For real this time.”
Both these things are needed before the Alliance takes on a heel role, to use wrestling terms. That said I would really like for them to get away from black and white face and heels. That just leads into just villain bat trading. It’s not as interesting and ultimately can never be resolved only pushed back or switched around.
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This is boring, now.
Their consequences literally do not matter and do not impact them, ever. Nothing changes for them. Nothing is lost. Whatever fleeting moment of defeat they suffer evaporates in literally the next expac. And no, Undercity does not count because Sylvanas frigging destroyed it herself.
So, expecting a faction that has suffered catastrophic invasion and mass slaughter of civilians in numerous settlements and entire regions–Stonetalon, Southshore, Theramore, Ashenvale, Darkshore, Teldrassil, Brennadam–to face consequences?
That’s stupid. Stupid, and petty. You just want murder victims to deserve it.
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yes let’s inflict the same crappy awful degrading story beats the horde have had to deal with on the alliance so the alliance playerbase can Know What It’s Like
this is good and healthy and will be good and healthy for the community (which i am a part of, i am part of the community i want to feel miserable, i am)
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But how else will you ever know??? the pain???
time for consequences, pup.
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To steel man his position, he’s not suggesting a 1:1 shift in turning Alliance into stupid evil just to know what it’s like. I doubt that’s what he wants. He can obviously speak for himself, but I imagine he’d like for the Alliance to drive the conflict and not be the one just retaliating to Horde atrocities. That doesn’t mean the Alliance has to do atrocities themselves. It just means they can be the ones to lead to a hot war. He can correct me if I’m wrong.
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This is the main summary of it.
That said, I also want the Alliance to in said conflict end up getting hit with consequences the same way people cry about slapping them on the Horde.
There is also the issue that every story needs a antagonist and, frankly, given the Horde has basically been stuck on the merry-go-round for this, the Alliance can endure 1 leader being that and having to be removed.
But you know, how dare I suggest that such things happen. It’s just soooo mean because I have the audacity to point out that consequence does not avoid one party and that the Alliance has functionally gotten to dodge it at most turns since Cata while the other faction gets a silver platter of it for the end of most it’s story arcs.
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It wasn’t enough for thousands upon thousands of civilians to burn and die, we need consequences for these beasts
you have to be hurt like i was hurt :((((((
God you’re not even hiding it even a little, are you
Demanding that the consistently victimized faction somehow be required to be the bad guys and get beat up for it is not interesting. It’s not a subversion, it’s not a fun twist. It’s just petty.
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No, I’m just not clowning as a stan like you and realize that if you want any semblance of decent writing you actually have to hit the reader/writer in a manner that they’re inclined to care about.
But hey, I’m sure using some random glowing windchime named Xe’ra will work just fine as a primary antagonist any wont in any way suffer from being regarded as an actual joke like Chain Daddy is. I’m -sure- that having no build up for an antagonist will work very well in the long run. Totally couldn’t be any better in the slightest than having a paragon of Alliance values have those values manifest in a nastier way to the point it becomes problematic and needs addressing.
But nuuu, it’s just toooo mean to do that to Alliance because the one suggesting it suggests consequences to the Alliance from group other than orcs and forsaken. It’s just soooo mean and it boggles the mind.
Imagine thinking humans in wow are some how actually victimized at this point when they’ve been the only ones in the Alliance lore to actually enjoy benefits since Wrath.
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