Classic set to fail before it even happens?

Depends on what the goal of the game is. If it’s just to get some dungeons done and check off a list of things that need to be done for the day, then sure.

I suspect we just have different ideas of what the game is for. And that’s ok.

Lmao. If you aren’t making this up (and frankly I think you are), what an utterly ridiculous reason to have a grudge against the game over. Tanks don’t have to reach some arbitrary number on a stat (after which it loses all value) which is only relevant in the entry-level gearing process so now the game sucks? Give me a break. I tanked back then as a prot paladin (are you mad at this too since that wasn’t viable in classic?) and frankly no longer having defense was great. For the entry-level gearing process it was much smoother and for late-expansion gearing it was no different at all because when defense did exist it was so plentiful at that point that the cap wasn’t even relevant anymore.

By the way, notice the difference between our post. I’m explaining exactly why defense was pointless and removing it was a good thing. You haven’t explained why you think removing it was a bad thing beyond “classic wow had it therefore removing it is bad”. Typical of these sort of arguments.

Don’t even begin to pretend this wasn’t the case for classic dungeons, either. People were there to get good items and that’s pretty much it. Did people sometimes stick around and form friendships? Sure. That still happens with mythic dungeons today, though, and now it can actually happen beyond server barriers too. Just did a +15 with a bunch of people I met in a m+ run a year ago and I still run with them all the time. Would literally never have met them if we were in classic WoW.

Heroic LK is a hard fight, so is Sarth +3. However most of the fights almost universally considered to be the hardest ones of WotLK are a handful of the hard modes in Ulduar. Method even has a video on this where they took a guild poll.

You criticize me bringing up Huhuran but she is part of Vanilla raiding too. A critical part for anyone who wants to clear all content. Some people are lured into thinking all the content is like Molten Core ( LFR difficulty comments) and those folks are in for a wake up call.

If it was the only reason, I’d agree. These things are not all or nothing. It’s the death of a thousands cuts. Yes, I’ll put up with this or that because the game is fun otherwise. I even came back for MoP and enjoyed it, but I didn’t tank. By the time Legion rolled around there were just too many off putting things and I have’t been back even to try the game since.

Like I said, different goals. I’m not arguing about how to make the game more efficient. I’m arguing about what was fun for me. I liked figuring out how to def cap while hit capped, etc. You can claim it wasn’t fun, I don’t agree.

If they had no real impact on the game, then leaving them in would have changed nothing…

Also, that was an example, not an exhaustive list. Are you familiar with the concept of an example?

Which is why it has scare quotes around it.

So then raid on heroic and mythic. The color of the text doesn’t matter. The gear you get from that is going to be way stronger than what people are getting from world quests. It’s only epic because of its ilevel, because Blizzard decided to go with consistency.

And the grinds have ends in Legion and BfA. And they’re completely optional. You don’t have to fly. You don’t have to play the allied races. 100% of the actual game content is available to you and not locked behind a grind. They even made PvP easier and got rid of having to grind honor for the starting set of gear. You’re hating BfA not for the things it changed in the game, but for the stuff that it kept the same, yet expecting to love classic for those same exact things.

The color of the text doesn’t matter, but the means in which it’s obtained and the level it grants is. Because, what it does, is effectively make retail a game with one raid. When you can do a simple WQ and get the same level of gear is the current end game normal raid, everything else is pretty irrelevant.

Azurite and AP ended? Unless you count the end of the xpac, that’s simply not true.

Do you enjoy PLAYING the game?

It’s play, not investing.

Is checkers worth investing in? Are Sand Castles worth investing in? When you watched the Avengers, was that an investment conference call?

WoW, classic or not, mmo or not, is a game. A pastime.

You either enjoy it in the now, for what it is, now, or you don’t and play something else.

There’s not much of a choice though. What the old game had going for it to let that be possible was the constant stream of new players and new alts. This is 15 years later on a game that is past its peak. The problem with not having that catch up, that unfortunately makes the older raids irrelevant, you’re going to have people stuck in progression because there’s just not people to progress with, and it leads back to the “stepping stone” guilds that were perpetually in SSC because everyone was leaving once they were ready for BT.

And AP and azurite… The gear grind never ends. The gear has always been the carrot on the stick that keeps you doing the raids and dungeons and BGs, and reps… You did MC to gear for BWL to gear for AQ to gear for Naxx…

Please. The EZ welfare epics BS started in LK. Technically, at the tail end of TBC. It’s gotten much, much, much worse, but it’s not new and has been a problem for 12 of those 15 years.

But why do we need this catchup? Apparently there are enough players to warrant wrecking the game to “catch up”, so why can’t they make their own raids? People were starting MC and Kara even towards the end of those xpacs.

AP and Azurite aren’t gear grinds. They are simply do X to get a handful of Y to make your Z a little better. Repeat daily until xpac ends. At a certain point, you’re done with MC, you’re done with BWL. Not to mention, they give immediate, tangible (relatively speaking) rewards. Not a little more of some arbitrary bar filled to use on some contrived BS that serves no other purpose than to hide how little there is to do in WoW specifically because of the things we are currently talking about.

Retail WoW is a hamster cage, and they just want to make sure that you show up every day to slap your feed bar. That’s why they invented systems that punish you for not doing so.

Thanks for proving my point. <3

You just can’t accept the fact that most players who will be in Classic will have fun regardless of what class and spec they choose to play. I’m so sorry that you are angry you can’t have your retail classes in Classic Saarthronah but that is fine. Your focus has not mentioned a single thought on whether or not people will have fun only what this spec and that spec can or cannot do. I have already joined a guild with like minded people of ~100 members for Classic and we will enjoy the mechanics of Classic over retail. Classic and Retail play styles are different and to each their own including yours. You are right about time, time will kill Classic but by then maybe Blizzard will have something new and shiny to give WoW fans.

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I’m hoping around 2 years after launch that they do what OSRS does and add Vanilla centric content to the game made by the Classic Devs.

New server with Classic+ : :ok_hand:
Changing existing Classic servers: That’s what started the problems in the first place.

Maybe. But if Blizzard doesn’t want to pay for double the servers I’m fine with them doing it on the main server. It’s not like there will be anything to really do 2 years in.

a) The majority isn’t. So while your opinion is nice, it’s not generally held.
b) The actual cost of new realms is trivial. Blizzard’s outlay is for development and work units, so if no-one plays on a realm, it costs minimal amounts. If everyone plays, they’re all putting their $15 in to support it.

Classic gives Blizzard an opportunity to do the entire history of the game right this time. Playing in each subsequent expac should require complete play-through off all the prior versions - Vanilla/Classic, TBC, WotLK . . . . with no catch up mechanics and no trimmed leveling speed. All the various expansions should be there unchanged from the state they were in when they were current. You could play in whatever version you like for as long as you wish.

If you are a newcomer to the game and want to play with friends in late versions, you have your work cut out for you. But when you finally make it to the level you want, you will know your class and you will know game history.

As if that will matter years down the line

The entire purpose and branding of Classic is that it won’t change.