Classic set to fail before it even happens?

[Slaanesh-emerald-dream (Slaanesh)]

Okay friend, we’ll see

[Thelastsmite-proudmoore]

So much wrong with this empty “argument”.
One, it is not human nature to want to know the future of something before investing in it. Emotion is human nature.
Two, there are not a large percentage of people that want classic+. You have no evidence for this claim so don’t claim it.
Three, when you go to make an argument, don’t use baseless information and false statistics.
Fix all of that and maybe people will take your argument serious. Otherwise, this is just some kid ranting about what he wants.

[Slaanesh-emerald-dream (Slaanesh)]

I think you’re overthinking things a bit lol…and you’re setting yourself up for a beef with every human being ever, always. It’s human to make predictions about the future. Relax and enjoy the dialogue.

[Doomoracle-chogall]

You don’t need to wait and see. I’m one of the ones who came back from a LONG hiatus (since Cata) just for Classic, and I’m telling you that Classic isn’t going to be anywhere near as popular as retail.

I just hope it’s popular ENOUGH to rock the boat and make blizz realize they’ve gone too far with some “QOL” features that ruin the MMO aspect of this MMORPG.

[Thelastsmite-proudmoore]

There is no dialog… its just people talking at each other.

[Slaanesh-emerald-dream (Slaanesh)]

Okay, now you’re just being silly. Have it your way lol

[Kolben-icecrown (Kolben)]

Classic isn’t going to be anywhere near as popular as retail.

I look forward to this being wrong.

[Verchance-wyrmrest-accord]

It’s a video game. Been playing since 1989. They are all a waste of time. Play or don’t. It’s your choice

[Doomoracle-chogall]

I look forward to this being wrong.

Weirdly enough, I don’t actually look forward to being correct in this respect. I don’t look forward to the people who will inevitably claim that classic has failed because it doesn’t have as many players as retail.

[Celessi-turalyon]

1- That was true…5 years ago.

2- What “grind”? There isn’t some contrived resource we need to farm simply to level up our silly xpac themed artifact. Yes, there is rep, but grinding rep and WQs aren’t most of end game like they are in retail.

3- Maybe, but the “gamer” Blizz is making games for is not the same one they used to make games for. And again, you keep saying you want Classic, but you haven’t offered a single reason for that statement while constantly offering reasons why you don’t like classic.

1. It’s still the top MMORPG, nothings taken that from them.

2. You clearly don’t remember endgame back then, or just never actually played. You need rep for the waters for MC. The AQ gear sets are gated behind rep. Naxx, unless you were rich, needed rep to be able to even step foot in the raid. So rep IS most of endgame in Classic. And it’s not “most of end game” in BfA. There’s way more to do than just WQs. But the common trend on these forums is to ignore the mountain of group content, and then complain that there’s nobody to group with.

3. And I have, repeatedly, because it had some of my favorite endgame dungeons and lets me do them again at an endgame difficulty. I’m not “giving reasons I don’t like classic.” I just live in reality where yeah, it has flaws, Blizzard failed at delivering at a lot of their own visions for the game.

[Bayel-area-52]

1- According to what? Most place I’ve seen put WoW at #2 or even three nowadays.
2- You didn’t need rep for AQ, or the gear that dropped inside. Only for the turn in gear. And the rep for the waterlords didn’t prevent you from going in, which is where you got that rep anyway. I can’t speak to Naxx as neither I, nor most people, set foot in there.
3- You are though. It’s one thing to say that you like classic/vanilla but it has flaws (which I certainly agree with) it’s quite another to rip at the very foundations of the game.

[Celessi-turalyon]

I’m not ripping at the foundations of the game, I’m correcting the completely baseless claims that the fanboi club on here constantly makes.

Yeah, it’s going to be a good game, but it’s not going to be the second coming where all of us are like a family in a disney movie.

And you’re going to grind. You’re going to spend a lot of time alone. If you’re not useless at your class, you’re going to naturally go with the cookie cutter spec. Every complaint about BfA is going to exist in Classic. I get it, you all hate BfA, you hate retail, and you hate retail players. But come back down to reality for a while, or you’re going to be VERY disappointed in classic.

Honestly, reading how a lot of you post, I’m probably going to outlive all of you in classic.

[Bayel-area-52]

You mean the completely accurate claim that classes were directed into roles?

I don’t mind grinding as part of the game and with a purpose. Grinding in retail IS the game, and it never ceases.

And most of the problems in retail will not exist in classic. They are:
-Community (LFD, LFR, CRZ)
-Gearflation (welfare epics)
-Real progression (again, welfare epics)
-Homogenization
-And missing RPG elements

[Celessi-turalyon]

And most of the problems in retail will not exist in classic. They are:
-Community (LFD, LFR, CRZ)
-Gearflation (welfare epics)
-Real progression (again, welfare epics)
-Homogenization
-And missing RPG elements

So don’t do dungeon finder and raid finder. Join a guild. Do organized PvP and raiding. Again, why do all of you REFUSE to do all of this content, and then complain that you refused to do it? There IS a community, you’re just CHOOSING to not be a part of it.

That progression, work your way into Mythic raiding and M+. That one piece of gear that titan forged to a mythic ilevel isn’t going to make someone magically fully geared like that. It’s extremely rare for that to happen. Get in there and play the game.

There’s no missing RPG elements, they’re all still there, but once again, you refuse to use them.

And grinding in retail isn’t really any more than in Classic. What else do you honestly think is at endgame besides grind rep, grind honor, or grind gear? Seriously, have you ever actually played vanilla or did you just come in late and play catch up?

[Wínter-twisting-nether]

Yep, that was my point

[Bayel-area-52]

Nothing I pointed has anything to do with content…aside from the content that retail decisions have gutted. And even doing organized raiding or pvp doesn’t fix anything I mentioned.

RPG elements are still there? Cool, I can’t wait to make some arrows…

And you’ll notice I said “real” progression, not welfare epics…until you exceed the entire normal game.

And again, (I seem to repeat myself a lot to certain…ahem…people), grinding is fine when it’s optional, and has an end. Grinding in Legion and BFA is endgame, and it never stops.

[Bepples-barthilas]

Nope. If you look at the complaints about changes, they start with features way earlier than Legion. I personally don’t remember what changed in TBC because the gear reset chased me away until Wrath. But in wrath, obviously LFD was a horrible change. Removing stats like hit and defense were awful changes. It started in Wrath if not earlier.

A vocal minority contingent has been complaining about every little thing, ever. Mass discontent really started later on due to things like increasing dependence of RNG in the loot system and class pruning and that vocal minority has been desperate to try to hijack that mass discontent and directed towards their various inane scapegoats.

The perfect example is flying. Remember all the support that removing flying got in WoD? It looked like the majority of WoW players actually did want flying gone… until it didn’t. The moment they stopped stringing everyone along by saying “it’s coming in the next patch” and said “it’s not ever coming this expansion or in any future expansion” the WoW playerbase melted down to such a degree that Blizzard had to go back on the decision immediately. Now, classic WoW fanatics look at that and have such utter contempt for other people’s gameplay preferences that they dismiss it as a playerbase full of “brainwashed zombies” or whatever, but maybe, just maybe, people just really life flying.

No, LFD was not “obviously a horrible change” unless you spend every waking moment in a purist echochamber. LFD is a godsend when you need to get some dungeons done. Having a separate higher difficulty that isn’t in the automatic queue with the normal and heroic dungeons being queued is a fine compromise. Sure, you might meet some people if you do a non-queued dungeon. On the flip-side, LFD groups you with people you would otherwise never have met. Like I said in other threads, I have a friends list full of people with whom I do dungeons/world content that are from other servers. Without cross-server functionality I would never have met them. And frankly, for all LFD’s faults, I still prefer it over spending literal hours of my time trying to form a group for something as mundane as a dungeon. Maybe classic WoW fanatics can develop a respect for other people’s time and empathise with that at some point. Doubt it.

Removing hit and defense? I really don’t care. They never added much to the game beyond some arbitrary yet strict requirement for your gearing and my enjoyment of the game was totally unaltered when they were gone. Evidently it wasn’t that important to you either since you can’t even remember when they were removed (Defense was removed in Cataclysm and Hit was removed in WoD). This applies to a whole bunch of minor, useless tat classic WoW players obsess over.

You want all classes “specs” to be optimal. You do not care a whit about viable. That is precisely what led us to BFA classes.

What led us to the BFA problems is an obsession with making every spec their own different class. Between BFA and Classic there were 6 expansions. One of which was MoP where every spec was indeed viable and they still had 90%+ of what they had in Vanilla. That’s the version that most people praise and think of fondly. So pretending that making every spec viable is what led to the class design woes of BFA is just another case of classic players dishonestly trying to hijack general outrage towards something in the latest expansion to validate the utterly nonsense claim that everything post-Classic was bad.

WoD was the beginning of the dumbing down of this game. Let’s be honest, Classic raids are about the difficulty of LFR or easier. It peaked at a certain point and then plummeted back to earth. It was a dumb decision but that’s what happened.

This is an extremely misinformed take. Raids were still very difficult in WoD and still are today.

As for Classic raid difficulty, most of the people who say this have no raid experience in Classic/Vanilla. LFR caliber raiders aren’t getting past Princess Huhuran, you can quote me on it.

Lol? Huhuran is extremely far into the Classic raiding content.

Bosses in classic are far more mechanically simple than bosses today, simple as that. Even the classes were simpler to play, even if you count the utility requirements. The only thing that was harder was preparing for raids i.e. consumables, and that is artificial difficulty by definition. With a more competitive playerbase in general and so many more advanced theory crafting tools, guilds will steamroll all the raid content. You can quote me on that.

WotLK was super easy outside of Ulduar hard modes. If you raided TBC at any decent level WotLK was easy days.

T7 was easy and undertuned outside of OS3D. The rest of hard mode content in the expansion was substantially difficult for most raiders. Even for top guilds, fights like Lich King were brutal. It’s exceptionally naive to pretend WotLK was completely easy outside of Ulduar.

More people downed mythinc Jaina before 8.2 than all naxx 40 clears in vanilla. The data shows the difficulty. Retail no-lifers are mad their guildies are leaving/

Lol? There was a substantial time investment requirement to all classic raids that was entirely artificial difficulty. The mere act of maintaining a roster of 40 people is already a barrier to most people. Couple that with the immense raid preparation requirements i.e. consumables and you’ve ruled out all but the most dedicated WoW players from even attempting the bosses. That does not mean the bosses of Naxx 40 are automatically harder. In fact, even if you go off time taken for a world first (which itself is faulty) they are easier in the majority of cases. When you have top guilds claiming that bosses like mythic Uu’nat are some of the hardest WoW has ever had, you should listen.

I just hope it’s popular ENOUGH to rock the boat and make blizz realize they’ve gone too far with some “QOL” features that ruin the MMO aspect of this MMORPG.

QOL is a meaningless scapegoat.

RPG elements are still there? Cool, I can’t wait to make some arrows…

You’re utterly delusional if you actually think things like ammo being removed had any real detrimental effect on the game.

[Altrageous-wyrmrest-accord]

You certainly have a horrible point of view on various topics.

[Bepples-barthilas]

Powerful argument. I’ve changed my mind on everything now …

[Odrade-bleeding-hollow]

Evidently it wasn’t that important to you either since you can’t even remember when they were removed (Defense was removed in Cataclysm

Ah ya got me. I didn’t play cata partly because of defense removal and yes my memory of what happened in the game 10 years ago is faded. I do remember enough that I wasn’t happy with the idea, and that’s the point.