You mean like how the game continued to grow and expand until it hit somewhere around 12 million players in WOTLK? You mean that mistake they made?
I get what you’re getting at, but obviously their initial changes through WOTLK were not perceived as overly negative for players.
I think most would point to Cataclysm as the expansion that started the decline of WoW.
Preaching to the choir, brother. Everything you said +1.
You underestimate how many people want to play real world of warcraft, not the crap that is retail. Classic will be huge, so will Classic TBC and Wotlk.
Listen, I will not say this twice. You do not change a winning formula. No changes is better than some changes. Diablo II has stayed the same for a long time and it’s still a masterpiece.
The best future for classic is exactly to have « no future » as you say.
Do you know what made diablo 2 success and highly regarded as the best game in the trilogy? The ability to play what ever build you so desire without being alienated or scrutinized for it, why? Because every build works. You can’t say the same for vanilla when classes and its specs are widely limited by mechanical and player choices. As i have said, making minor changes to existing spells in the case of dps and healing specs is by tweaking numbers just enough to make every dps and healing spec up to a raid standard and giving tauntless tank specs the taunts and threat generation mechanics they need. This will ultimately give the game not only wider class variety in the world and groups but a far more enjoyable experience to those that wish to play those specs without losing class diversity, roles or ruining the game experience.
By lore a lot of these classes should be far more powerful and usable. Yet they aren’t, they have the chance to correct these class imbalances if they wish to see classic succeed which to them and their investors is player numbers, how many players stay and continue to play and if they intend to add content to the game (not bfa mind you).
Regardless if by some miracle classic manages to retain their target recurring player count a year after release and stagnant content doesn’t kill it class changes will come next to new level 60 content or expansions.
1- That was true…5 years ago.
2- What “grind”? There isn’t some contrived resource we need to farm simply to level up our silly xpac themed artifact. Yes, there is rep, but grinding rep and WQs aren’t most of end game like they are in retail.
3- Maybe, but the “gamer” Blizz is making games for is not the same one they used to make games for. And again, you keep saying you want Classic, but you haven’t offered a single reason for that statement while constantly offering reasons why you don’t like classic.
DII is a single player game, with health and mana pots that are like weeds. Comparing a dungeon crawl game like DII with an MMORPG is ludicrous. In fact the more they borrowed from Diablo, the more the MMORPG declined in quality. Today’s WoW is arguably more like D3 than vanilla WoW, and suffers because of it. Even worse that it has crap like pokemon jammed into it.
I like orange Julius, and I love bacon. They stand on their own. You are not improving one by making it more like the other.
Diablo 2 is widely known to be a better mp game in comparison to diablo 3, in diablo 3 they threw away the players ability to play how they wanted. Thats why diablo 3 failed, this is coming from someone who pre ordered and played it on day one where few people managed to get in and play.
I’m not here completely defending bfa, nor am i here to attack classic when i intend to play it, but I’m also not being pathetically ignorant to the reality of what was demanded for, the changes i want is what many others want, its to ensure the survival of classic.
If you or anyone else is too damn blinded by nostalgia rose tinted glasses to see that what you guys demanded for is set to fail with the all encompasing and the inevitable time.
That being said doing what old school runescape is doing is the only way to ensure the survival of classic and thats by adding new content at a level 60 end game, no more no less, we aren’t demanding bfa 2.0. We’re demanding minor class and spec buffs to make all of it playable, we’re demanding new content, new zones, new gear, new dungeons without compromising the core that makes classic classic.
With thay being said i would still personally like to see tbc, wotlk content be back ported and scaled for a level 60 world. This includes dks being at a level 60 world as well. Same with pandas and monks, same with demon hunters as well as entirety of kul tiras to be in the world because it exists in lore, warcraft 3 maps and in book form.
This by logic should have all existed in world of warcraft as base game content. Now we aren’t demanding this to be crammed in before or during the phase releases either.
All of this can come after the fact but i still feel class and spec buffs should happen somewhere in those phases.
You can have class changes as long as paladins are removed from the game. Seems fair.
Nope. If you look at the complaints about changes, they start with features way earlier than Legion. I personally don’t remember what changed in TBC because the gear reset chased me away until Wrath. But in wrath, obviously LFD was a horrible change. Removing stats like hit and defense were awful changes. It started in Wrath if not earlier.
Classes, changed dramatically in tbc, the crap tanks got better for obvious reasons. Warriors specially fury got stronger because of the ability dual wield 2 handers. Flight within outlands (never planned to happen to be fair, players demanded it when blizzard brought it up)
This talk of fail vs success. To Blizzard classic will be a success. It has brought players back that otherwise would not be playing retail and will continue to have those players subscribed for some time. Someone made a point about what happens after AQ, I am not disillusioned to the fact that even some of the players most excited for Classic will probably start dropping off especially if a game comes out that can actually compete with WoW (Retail or Classic). Diablo 4, something from Bonfire Studios or (unfortunately unlikely) another WoW game on an updated Engine.
Success in an mmorpg world is number of recurring players, while yes it did bring back tons of people, it isn’t a success until they see that number of recurring players.
Hence why they said once we know classic is a success they might work on expansions or additional content to classic.
Trying to ensure classic stays a static stagnant dead game is the complete opposite of success and it affects the entirety of classic, if 75% of the player base leaves because they’re bored, they did everything they wanted to or there isn’t enough content to enjoy, then all that remains is 25% of a community that should be at 50% or higher.
As i said countless times in this thread, the game rides a very thin line across the ultimatum called time, time kills everything at some point in its existence.
My kids demand to be able to sit on their game consoles all day and eat iced cream.
Your demand for classic to be more like Diablo and BFA is NOT something that would ensure the survival of classic. Content additions? I am all for it, but don’t give me that “nostalgiarosecoloredglasses” BS. Vanilla was better because of it’s gameplay and class designs, not because they they were all equal but because they were NOT all equal.
Demands from players like you, and blizzard catering to them, is what strangled the game until it has a bloated purple face, but hey, it still has a pulse.
You are not here to “completely defend bfa”? In what universe does it warrant defending at all? The last place you should be doing so is in the group that is running screaming from that biblical disaster.
“You think you do, but you don’t…”
You missed the point entirely, if you bothered to read, the changes proposed are to NOT result in bfa and crapblo 3, the changes proposed are MENT to get people to play specs otherwise unwanted, if you can’t see that then you are extremely blinded by nostalgia and are extremely ignorant of the reality that exists for classic. Man up and take those glasses off and look at the future of a game you demanded to be remade.
If you can’t accept reality as it is, go back to playing private servers.
I agree.
People take out huge loans in order to put themselves through college. Because the data shows that those who go to college on average earn better salaries and lead more beneficial lives.
However, there is absolutely no data that proves that not only will Classic be successful. But will continue to be successful year after year.
So by your own reasoning why should Blizzard make any statements on the future of Classic. When this entire project is 50/50 chance of succeeding or failing.
How about we see how the first year goes before deciding to invest any more time, money, or effort into Classic? You know, because it may not actually have a future, time will tell.
Thats really odd considering I played, Holy, Prot, and Ret during Vanilla.
You do realise the solution to your problem is to not play in douchecanoe guilds that dictate how, when, and what you play?
Vanilla is no different than any other time in WoW’s history. Most Paladins were Holy because it was the most effective spec, but future expansions would have the same issue for all classes when it comes to top end game content.
It doesn’t matter what the class is, even today there is generally one best spec. Guilds still stack the best tank, healers, and whichever is the top DPS spec for each class. Despite the changes Blizzard has made over the last 15 years that is one thing that has never changed.
The difference with Classic is that you are going back in time, when what was good and what wasn’t was different. The purpose of Classic is to redo that point in time.
If in 3 years there is only a hand full of players then so what? If success is only measured at the end point then every single game in history has been a failure.
Idk i’m not looking for a 10 year investment into a game anymore I was a lot younger and had a lot less responsibility back then I don’t mind something i’ll probably get 2 years out of and be done.
In bfa, all specs are played, from ret to holy. That isn’t the case in vanilla, thats due people demanding you to reroll another class because x spec you’re playing flat out sucks based on information which at the time was most likely incorrect on every front. Prot paladins lacked threat generation and a taunt, rets were widely disliked because their damage output was abysmal in comparison to other classes (probably because rets were never really given gear because the warrior tank needed everything) Holy was the only desired spec in that class.
Druids, bear druids lacked threat generation and a taunt, feral cats were good for aoe killing everything, moonkins sucked (again probably because they lacked gear) leaving resto druid the only desired spec.
You want all classes “specs” to be optimal. You do not care a whit about viable. That is precisely what led us to BFA classes.
![:roll_eyes:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/roll_eyes.png?v=6" ":roll_eyes:")
The future depends on available content (capped at L60) I have repeatedly written that. Changing classes should not be on the table, save rolling back to when DPS could not go full bore with no fear of aggro, which allowed them to pull even further away from hybrid DPS.
I see you are fresh out of insight if you are going to toss the “go back to private servers” line. Good grief.