Sharding if it’s limited to starting zones and is only for the first day or 2 i can live with. I would rather not though. But I want old AV and values fixed which I’m sure they will. Like has been said it’s prob just clutter they didn’t fix yet.
11/03/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Goldtotem11/03/2018 02:29 PMPosted by MelanedAs for sharding though, I am entirely against it remaining after the first 1-2 weeks. While I prefer no sharding whatsoever I do not believe the first week will break the game for me.
I’m kind of on the fence myself.
I don’t want sharping, but I kind of understand why they want it for the first week or so.
The alternative is opening a crapton of servers initially, most of which will die in a few months when the novelty wears off.
I just don’t want them using sharding after that initial period.
E-FREAKING-FRACKING-XACTLY.
We need to have some understanding that Blizzard wants to keep things from being virtually unplayable. And yes, I am on the fence too, I don't want it but I will not let a launch with sharding ruin the rest of classic's life span.
I will however say, LAUNCH ONLY AT MOST IF EVER. It better be shut off for the rest of the game I don't care how bad it gets from there.
11/03/2018 02:27 PMPosted by MelanedEnough QQ...
Loot trading, he gave a legitimate reason really. Back then, and I actually remember this being a thing too, if you fcked up and looted you could request a fix. Loot trading may be more relaxed but it won't be that big of an issue. And ninja looting will still be a thing rofl. They just have the option to give it back if they really want to.
In fact I've had accidental ninja looting, it sucks cus the guy didnt mean to. Waiting 4-5 days to fix is just meh.
As for the 16 debuff limit. I am happy. I do think it should be limited to 8 in certain raids but I won't let that kill it for me.
Addons - am happy.
well, i can understand if looting was not intentional and for those people- they shouldnt have their rep ruined for it and thats just how things worked with such a tight nit community. but at the same time, loot trading invalidates any responsibility that an actual ninja looter should have. its not killing two birds with one stone. its killing one and letting the other fly off. and thats where my issue with it comes in.
debuff limit- i am on the fence about. i wish it was 8 but as long as no other issues creep up, i can pass with the 16.
addons- if (at the LEAST) quest helper isnt allowed, i will be pretty upset. its not a game breaker for me but its one of those things that can help new AND old. even oldies who need a refresh. and its not game 'breaking' in the slightest. its just a guide. some can use it if they feel they need a refresh/help and others, can not use it at all.
11/03/2018 02:34 PMPosted by BreknarI must be a moron, because my dumb self still thinks they should just copy everything from Vanilla and put it on the server and voila, the game is ready
They literally spent 20+ minutes explaining why that wasn't possible.
You can still ninja loot. But if you accidentally loot instead of waiting for blizz to fix the issue you can read right there. Not the biggest deal to me.11/03/2018 02:34 PMPosted by BreknarI must be a moron, because my dumb self still thinks they should just copy everything from Vanilla and put it on the server and voila, the game is ready.... They are overthinking it way too much. These private servers have their flaws, but at least its more true to the game than what Blizzard is coming out with. Stop changing crap that doesn't need to be changed. Ninja looting happens, part of the freaking game. Do people like it? No, but it's part of the experience. Stop hand holding.
11/03/2018 02:34 PMPosted by Starman11/03/2018 02:33 PMPosted by MelanedI do feel that our outrage over sharding is the one thing we need to assure it gets the attention it needs to show we want warts and all.
And I think the criticism towards sharding is legit, but whining about it like some people have been doing is not the right way to handle it.
I will agree again. Some people are going too far. My post "Are you upset?..." was to direct this.
People are just like "i quit" or freaking out insanely. We need passion but we need control too. Outrage is required but it needs to be understandable.
11/03/2018 02:34 PMPosted by BreknarI must be a moron, because my dumb self still thinks they should just copy everything from Vanilla and put it on the server and voila, the game is ready.... They are overthinking it way too much. These private servers have their flaws, but at least its more true to the game than what Blizzard is coming out with. Stop changing crap that doesn't need to be changed. Ninja looting happens, part of the freaking game. Do people like it? No, but it's part of the experience. Stop hand holding.
They want their modern security updates, as well as integration with modern systems like Battle.net and their current customer server setup. They also want it to run on the modern server architecture rather than reviving the stuff they were using in 2006.
None of us, not even the programmers among us, are fully qualified to say what the best route for Blizzard would be on this from a technical standpoint because none of us have seen the codebase they're working with. At best we can make somewhat educated guesses.
Though I do agree: They don't need to change stuff that doesn't need to be changed. They keep assuring us they want to make this as close as possible to 2006 Vanilla.
I can accept that a lot of stuff in the demo is a work in progress, but then they turn around and mention things like loot trading and that they're entertaining sharding in the early days of Classic.
11/03/2018 02:34 PMPosted by BreknarI must be a moron, because my dumb self still thinks they should just copy everything from Vanilla and put it on the server and voila, the game is ready.... They are overthinking it way too much. These private servers have their flaws, but at least its more true to the game than what Blizzard is coming out with. Stop changing crap that doesn't need to be changed. Ninja looting happens, part of the freaking game. Do people like it? No, but it's part of the experience. Stop hand holding.
This is how you end up with thousands of Classic accounts getting hijacked by gold sellers within a couple months of the game launching… remember, 1.12’s authentication has none of Battle.net’s protections like 2FA, and as they mentioned on stage the 1.12 client has a !@#$load of exploits that are extremely well known and will be used by malicious parties.
11/03/2018 02:36 PMPosted by Keleneth11/03/2018 02:27 PMPosted by MelanedEnough QQ...
Loot trading, he gave a legitimate reason really. Back then, and I actually remember this being a thing too, if you fcked up and looted you could request a fix. Loot trading may be more relaxed but it won't be that big of an issue. And ninja looting will still be a thing rofl. They just have the option to give it back if they really want to.
In fact I've had accidental ninja looting, it sucks cus the guy didnt mean to. Waiting 4-5 days to fix is just meh.
As for the 16 debuff limit. I am happy. I do think it should be limited to 8 in certain raids but I won't let that kill it for me.
Addons - am happy.
well, i can understand if looting was not intentional and for those people- they shouldnt have their rep ruined for it and thats just how things worked with such a tight nit community. but at the same time, loot trading invalidates any responsibility that an actual ninja looter should have. its not killing two birds with one stone. its killing one and letting the other fly off. and thats where my issue with it comes in.
debuff limit- i am on the fence about. i wish it was 8 but as long as no other issues creep up, i can pass with the 16.
addons- if (at the LEAST) quest helper isnt allowed, i will be pretty upset. its not a game breaker for me but its one of those things that can help new AND old. even oldies who need a refresh. and its not game 'breaking' in the slightest. its just a guide. some can use it if they feel they need a refresh/help and others, can not use it at all.
Could you please clarify a bit on your "loot trading invalidates any responsibility that an actual ninja looter should have"?
I do think quest helper will be okay. I won't use it personally but yeah.
11/03/2018 02:35 PMPosted by Melaned11/03/2018 02:32 PMPosted by Goldtotem...
I’m kind of on the fence myself.
I don’t want sharping, but I kind of understand why they want it for the first week or so.
The alternative is opening a crapton of servers initially, most of which will die in a few months when the novelty wears off.
I just don’t want them using sharding after that initial period.
E-FREAKING-FRACKING-XACTLY.
We need to have some understanding that Blizzard wants to keep things from being virtually unplayable. And yes, I am on the fence too, I don't want it but I will not let a launch with sharding ruin the rest of classic's life span.
I will however say, LAUNCH ONLY AT MOST IF EVER. It better be shut off for the rest of the game I don't care how bad it gets from there.
But it won't just be at launch. You can't seriously think they'll yank it out and not use it for the AQ gate opening. That's far more likely to wreck the server than opening day in Elwynn...
11/03/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Ellilaine11/03/2018 02:35 PMPosted by Melaned...
E-FREAKING-FRACKING-XACTLY.
We need to have some understanding that Blizzard wants to keep things from being virtually unplayable. And yes, I am on the fence too, I don't want it but I will not let a launch with sharding ruin the rest of classic's life span.
I will however say, LAUNCH ONLY AT MOST IF EVER. It better be shut off for the rest of the game I don't care how bad it gets from there.
But it won't just be at launch. You can't seriously think they'll yank it out and not use it for the AQ gate opening. That's far more likely to wreck the server than opening day in Elwynn...
That is why we must be absolutely vocal about sharding.
It's why I overall oppose it. I fear that if it gets in at all it will remain in.
Thisd exactly. If it worked for them once, they will keep sharding in the game for other areas.11/03/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Ellilaine11/03/2018 02:35 PMPosted by Melaned...
E-FREAKING-FRACKING-XACTLY.
We need to have some understanding that Blizzard wants to keep things from being virtually unplayable. And yes, I am on the fence too, I don't want it but I will not let a launch with sharding ruin the rest of classic's life span.
I will however say, LAUNCH ONLY AT MOST IF EVER. It better be shut off for the rest of the game I don't care how bad it gets from there.
But it won't just be at launch. You can't seriously think they'll yank it out and not use it for the AQ gate opening. That's far more likely to wreck the server than opening day in Elwynn...
11/03/2018 02:36 PMPosted by Pärker11/03/2018 02:34 PMPosted by BreknarI must be a moron, because my dumb self still thinks they should just copy everything from Vanilla and put it on the server and voila, the game is ready
They literally spent 20+ minutes explaining why that wasn't possible.
No, They spent 20+ minutes explaining how it was possible, but they chose not to because they insist on having battle.net integration and other features that only affect them over accurately and faithfully reproducing Vanilla as Classic and working on bug fixes from there.
There is absolutely no reason they could not choose to emulate the game the same way that private servers have, yet get all the values right. They have all the data needed going back to the late 1990s. They seem to somehow be missing art that exists in the vanilla client.
They could then figure out a way to do bug fixes, addon other services such as battle.net, administrative tools, etc. They made the choice to not do a faithful recreation of the game because of artificial constraints that have nothing to do with actual game play.
I want to mention that I got this nice piece from MMO Champ when Blizzard was talking about Classic.
"Other decisions were slightly less clear cut. At one point in WoW’s history, there was an 8 debuff limit on any one target. This was later raised to 16, and today there is no debuff limit. Thes change radically changed the balance of classes and strategies players could employ when using these debuffs to overcome content. To preserve that balance—and to avoid the slippery slope of retuning patch 1.12 data to compensate for such modern-era changes—we’re looking at setting a debuff limit of 16 for WoW Classic."
The 3rd Paragraph under Philosophy and Future Plans.
This seems to indicate that Blizzard knows the slippery slope is real
"Other decisions were slightly less clear cut. At one point in WoW’s history, there was an 8 debuff limit on any one target. This was later raised to 16, and today there is no debuff limit. Thes change radically changed the balance of classes and strategies players could employ when using these debuffs to overcome content. To preserve that balance—and to avoid the slippery slope of retuning patch 1.12 data to compensate for such modern-era changes—we’re looking at setting a debuff limit of 16 for WoW Classic."
The 3rd Paragraph under Philosophy and Future Plans.
This seems to indicate that Blizzard knows the slippery slope is real
11/03/2018 02:39 PMPosted by Melaned<span class="truncated">...</span>
well, i can understand if looting was not intentional and for those people- they shouldnt have their rep ruined for it and thats just how things worked with such a tight nit community. but at the same time, loot trading invalidates any responsibility that an actual ninja looter should have. its not killing two birds with one stone. its killing one and letting the other fly off. and thats where my issue with it comes in.
debuff limit- i am on the fence about. i wish it was 8 but as long as no other issues creep up, i can pass with the 16.
addons- if (at the LEAST) quest helper isnt allowed, i will be pretty upset. its not a game breaker for me but its one of those things that can help new AND old. even oldies who need a refresh. and its not game 'breaking' in the slightest. its just a guide. some can use it if they feel they need a refresh/help and others, can not use it at all.
Could you please clarify a bit on your "loot trading invalidates any responsibility that an actual ninja looter should have"?
I do think quest helper will be okay. I won't use it personally but yeah.
the ability (or inability) to discern the difference between 'intentional' and 'accidental'- will become a very big smoke screen. most of all for ninja looters.
no such thing used to exist. sure, accidental looting has happened and those people had to suffer the stigma but it also NEVER allowed ninja looters to escape backlash from the community. until now.
im afraid, that we will see a MASSIVE spike in 'accidental' looting.
11/03/2018 02:45 PMPosted by Stevospeedo11/03/2018 02:36 PMPosted by Pärker...
They literally spent 20+ minutes explaining why that wasn't possible.
No, They spent 20+ minutes explaining how it was possible, but they chose not to because they insist on having battle.net integration and other features that only affect them over accurately and faithfully reproducing Vanilla as Classic and working on bug fixes from there.
There is absolutely no reason they could not choose to emulate the game the same way that private servers have, yet get all the values right. They have all the data needed going back to the late 1990s. They seem to somehow be missing art that exists in the vanilla client.
They could then figure out a way to do bug fixes, addon other services such as battle.net, administrative tools, etc. They made the choice to not do a faithful recreation of the game because of artificial constraints that have nothing to do with actual game play.
They could throw the !@#$ty old client at us and charge $15. It would be the easy path, sure, but it would backlash tremendously.
Security flaws, hackers, lost accounts, instability...
How does it let them escape backlash? They can’t just say oops sorry and have the item. Now when they try that garbage you can say well then if it was accidental give it to x y or z. When they don’t they Nina looted and you blast their name and battle tag all over the forums. Problem solved....
Could you please clarify a bit on your "loot trading invalidates any responsibility that an actual ninja looter should have"?
I do think quest helper will be okay. I won't use it personally but yeah.
the ability (or inability) to discern the difference between 'intentional' and 'accidental'- will become a very big smoke screen. most of all for ninja looters.
no such thing used to exist. sure, accidental looting has happened and those people had to suffer the stigma but it also NEVER allowed ninja looters to escape backlash from the community. until now.
im afraid, that we will see a MASSIVE spike in 'accidental' looting.
11/03/2018 02:33 PMPosted by Melaned11/03/2018 02:30 PMPosted by Starman...
Exactly this. People really need to learn to speak PR.
Starman I don't always agree with you but you are spot on.
I will say Lore made the comment to state of sharding being in the game, but he dealt in no absolutes. That is to be expected.
I do feel that our outrage over sharding is the one thing we need to assure it gets the attention it needs to show we want warts and all.
much unlike a sith
Was there a Q&A?
11/03/2018 02:42 PMPosted by Melaned11/03/2018 02:40 PMPosted by Ellilaine...
But it won't just be at launch. You can't seriously think they'll yank it out and not use it for the AQ gate opening. That's far more likely to wreck the server than opening day in Elwynn...
That is why we must be absolutely vocal about sharding.
It's why I overall oppose it. I fear that if it gets in at all it will remain in.
Lore said it's their best tool for server stability. Do you think they only want stability at launch for a few days and that's it ?