Class tree quite undesirable for DPS shamans

The class tree is great for Resto shaman. However, the last row for both Ele/Enh, are not even worth the points for shaman DPS specs.

Enh – Reset the CD of a totem??? what totem would we ever want to reset as Enh?? Maybe ele would want to reset liquid magma totem, that’s pretty much it.

Ele – Tranquil air / stone skin totem… Tranquil air would have 0 use in raids, marginally useful in PVP. Stone skin is a great tank buff, I daresay mandatory. BUT why would ANY dps player want to press this button every 30 sec?
It should be competing with Ancestral guidance, as it’s a great resto talent.

A good ultimate class talent choice would be Ascendance, or Primordial wave, which is usable for all 3 specs.

Currently these talents just make 0 sense for dps players, esp. considering they’re the “ultimate” talents in the last row.

Compare to Paladin’s class tree, they have desirable end row talents.


The few times ive mythic+ theres always some mobs that can kick casts. One of the most annoying trash pulls in CN had aoe silence mechanics.

Its not huge but tranquil air totem would be useful at those times.

Also spell pushback is just something that should have been removed several expansions ago. It really felt like they should have removed it at the end of tbc.

It’s perfect imo. You have situational talents that will be great in different settings. You don’t need class tree capstones to be op talents or anything. Having the flexibility to bring what you need to a group is exactly what is needed for Shamans.


Wind fury no?

are you high


No. Ten characters

i refuse to believe you didn’t know windfury totem doesn’t have a cd


I’m sorry I don’t know the exact mechanics of that ability.

you better be buster brown


I FUNDAMENTALLY disagree. To paraphrase Max: Trees that have “power” stored in the capstones end up with zero creativity for the final 10 points of their build. Look up a video called “The Worst Talent Tree” on the channel Maximum Clips.

I’d rather the talent trees be about interesting choices over utility and not 10 mandatory points to finish a build. Having utility capstones is freeing to build diversity.


put Seraphim (paladin last row in class talents) in the same node as stone skin totem.

that’ll give you an idea how many dps players prefer “utility”

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I don’t follow your argument, and perhaps you’re misunderstanding mine.

I’m not saying that people prefer having a choice between utility nodes and throughput nodes in a capstone (that’s what It sounds like you thought I meant).

I’m saying to improve the paladin tree, move the entire Seraphim/Sanctified Wrath choice node up to where BOP is located (and move BOP to a capstone). At the end, maybe your “standard” build is the same you get Seraphim & BOP. However if you decide your group doesn’t need the BOP you unleash not only that 1 point, but possibly even other points that flow into it -without- losing Seraphim.


You just proved his point?

If you put ascendance as a capstone in the class tree then that’s an auto lock no matter what. By having utility focused trees that allows us to build a variety of setups based on our needs for the content.

Shaman class tree is excellent, with only a few minor issues.


Double capacitator totem could be handy


damaged is going to be tuned no matter where “dps talents” are on the tree. if shaman damage is underperforming it wont be because of where things are on the tree and the devs can adjust numbers individually.

something like primordial wave could be in the class tree.

It shouldn’t though, because then we wouldn’t get the talents in the individual trees that branch down from them. Which for ele in particular look insanely good

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you rather Primordial wave be in the spec tree, than the class tree?
makes 0 sense.

Ele’s last talent row is by far THE most bloated, with 23 potential points, while NO other spec has more than 20, which means they actually get to pick most of their desired talents, instead of staring at options with less than half the talent points.

Yes? Absolutely 100%. If it was in the class tree we might get some garbage follow up points. Since it’s in the spec tree, we get these awesome new talents like Heat Wave and Rolling Magma that are specific to elemental and will work really well with the spec.

Putting it in the class tree would strictly water it down. And then of course you run into the issue that you brought up earlier in the thread where it is a dps gain so it’s a mandatory talent, and removes all choice or nuance from the rest of the class tree. Loss all around

The end of eles tree is absolutely fantastic. You are not intended to get every point. It’s not bloat, it’s called options. Right now you can reliably build to 2 capstones in every build with a few extra points. It gives people the ability to mix and match so much and that is awesome.



There is exactly one scenario where you can’t get every talent you want, and it’s 2-3 target stacked cleave. You end up 2-4 points of getting everything you could ever want. 2-3 target spread, single target, and AoE you can get every talent you would want for that scenario without issue.

Our tree isn’t bloated, it allows actual specialization of damage profile. You categorically do not want a tree that’s thin at the top, where you have little capstone variance. That’s how you end up having to use suboptimal damage profiles for stuff. You want a tree that’s thin at the bottom, so you can get essentials without spending too many points, and thicc at the top, so you can make your build truly shine at a specific thing.

Or, as the great sage once said: little in the middle, but she’s got much back.