Class Set Feedback: Warrior

Prot tier set: Good overall, but like the poster above articulated, you will use avatar on cd and having it overwrite to 8 stacks regardless of how many outburst stacks you currently have seem wasted. Maybe reduce the stacks. This tier set will also force prot to run anger management.

Fury tier set: Great overall, no complaints.

Arms tier set: Needs improvement, 2 set needs to be doubled or proc with enduring blow legendary. 4 set is very boring and pile on gets used if enduring blow procs. Maybe make it 3% effectiveness and reduce the rage required to 65 rage, and doesn’t trigger when enduring procs. Reducing rage required will make anger management viable.

Also open to a redesign, arms has 2 cd’s baseline, maybe instead of buffing or improving colossus smash, have it interact with bladestorm.
Ex: 2 piece set, mortal strike casts reduces the cd of bladestorm by 2-3 secs.
4 piece set, each mortal strike cast increases bladestorm damage by x amount, while bladestorming the rage you accumulated during bladestorm gets expelled causing % shadow damage to x targets.

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not really a fan of the arms warrior set, not only is it weak comparitively to other tier sets its also just un fun and even has times where it can present a huge downside ex. enduring blow proccing right before warbreaker comes up which just saps all ur stacks in a potential aoe scenario. something that helps the flow of the arms warrior rotation would fit alot better. ex: 2set:each charge of overpower also decreases the rage cost of your next mortal strike by 5 rage per stack, 4set: using a 2 overpower charge mortal strike would proc sudden death. this would help with the current rage starve situation, and it would increase dps by allowing for more execute casts. overall it flows 10x better with the rotation and bridges gaps

Disagree. The prot set bonuses are pretty fun. Huge damage increases, different build opportunities, and a small defensive gain to boot. Though, the outburst stacks overwriting one-another when you press avatar does feel bad. You can fit it in sometimes by slightly delaying avatar but you really don’t want to do that.

Fury bonuses are likewise pretty good.

Arms bonuses need a redesign.

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How do they add ‘fun’ to the class or rotation - it remains exactly the same until you passively gain 8 stacks then use it on SS if its available or TC if its available - which you would be pressing ss or tc in that exact same point in time without the bonus - i still have no idea what an empowered ignore pain does.

Compared to other tanks, minimal damage overall.

Explain these different build opportunities that the bonus allows you to run. Keep in mind i use off meta talents and tank average 15+ keys, full heroic raids and early mythic raid bosses (i main dps warr but fill in tank) - devistator/double time/best served cold/bounding stride/indomitable/ravager/anger management - what can this bonus add to my builds.

10% damage reduction on avatar is nice i agree but it still isnt enough to forget about shield block and ignore pain and dump all rage during avatar windows into revenge/execute.

Afterthought - Avatar gives you shield block for the entire duration would be a nice bonus alongside the 10% DR.

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I honestly don’t see us rage starved. The big issue of the Arms set as of right now is how Enduring Blow (legendary) effects it in various ways that can impact the set as a whole.

One option of a redesign I thought of was tie it to a anima power that Arms has which allows Mortal Strike to cast Whirl Wind.
So why tie this power to the Arms set? Well first off it would give us both Aoe and Single Target interactions. It would promp up Enduring Blow (even if they have to reduce the proc chance) to being good for interaction. It would also effect Mortal Combo Procs and would also be good for Fevor builds or even Rend builds in the talent tree.

We wouldn’t have to worry about RNG proccing like we do right now if Enduring Blow is equipped which seems to be the biggest issue of the set.

As a direct result of the feedback we’ve seen here, Arms Warriors will see a complete redesign of the 2-piece and 4-piece set in today’s PTR build. We’ll have the notes updated soon.

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Glad to hear it, thanks for the info.

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Bingo like to see Prot War get back to it’s glory WotLK days. When I play Prot I want to see big Shield Slams or why bother playing.

Cross-posting from elsewhere for hopefully more visibility


My initial impressions on the prot warr bonus are kinda mixed

-I do like that there appears to be a choice of what to use it on, defensive vs offensive
-I don’t like that it’s 3 different abilities, with shield slam being the clear winner in most situations

Even though I like the offense vs defense choice, I personally would prefer that the ignore pain % bonus was nerfed but always activated when reaching 8 stacks and you got to choose between thunder clap and shield slam (though again this would mean hitting tclap in current tuning would be a mistake and feel bad, aside from some extremely niche situation of needing the bigger snare)

Will update after testing it some on the PTR

EDIT: After some testing, ignoring the bugs of the set stopping functionality, it definitely feels not great to be worrying about hitting Ignore Pain when nearing 8 stacks. It feels like more of a detriment than a bonus, to be honest

EDIT 2: What i think is happening with the IP munching buff:
-IP costs 40 Rage
-1 Outburst stack needs 30 Rage
-If you are on the 6th stack with less than 10 rage still required to reach the 7th stack and use IP it bumps you “over” the 8th stack (10 to reach 7th and 30 to finish the 8th)and instantly consumes the Outburst buff
-You do not get the “effectiveness increase” for the IP because you used it at 7th stack.
-That makes the current best strategy to NOT use ignore pain at 6+ stacks of outburst, which isn’t great

Also, it really feels bad that when you use Avatar, it instantly deletes all of your current Outburst stacks(364006) and just gives you the 2nd Outburst buff (364010); you are wasting all those built up stacks if you use Avatar with any, but if you sit on the CD then you are wasting the 4pc bonus, synergy with Anger Management, etc. Is it possible to have avatar not munch all of the stacking Outburst buffs when giving the bonus buff?

Thunder Clap feels completely awful to use with the buff, below is a hit on 5 targets:

Why press tclap when I could have pressed SS for ~15k hit and enough extra Rage to use 3 Revenges?

I would vastly prefer if tclap was removed from the bonus, ignore pain was always granted at 8 stacks and it just buffed shield slam effectiveness. It removes any of the “traps” from the set bonus and doesn’t require monitoring your buffs like a hawk

5 Likes

Crushing it, Kaivax.

My first impressions on the Arms set bonus changes is thank you for at least listening to the community in how it interacted with CS\WB and the legendary, Enduring Blow.

Testing the new changes today left me impressed that it moved in the right direction that it needed to be. Although I’m not a big fan of ramp ups in the past when it comes for Arms in general this is one ramp up mechanic that has left me very impressed in open world content while testing today.

When it came to elites or stronger enemies, I was able to keep full stacks of the str bonus that overpower was providing till the target was pretty much dead. Even in fights that require movement, a single stack of the str buff from overpower is still good. (this is directed mainly at pvp)

Enduring blow also had a better interaction with the changes as well with the set bonuses then it did previously. The 15 second duration also felt fine on target for the buff.

Overall I think it’s on the right track. I have no complaints on the direction of the bonuses which in my opinion doesn’t really need any major tweaks.

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The new set doesn’t need any major tweaks… aside from being obscenely overpowered!

Current projections put the 2p at 7%, the 4p upwards 17%, and the combined bonus at around 26% - much of which stems from the effectively permanent 20% strength buff. While the previous version was clearly undertuned, this one has the exact opposite problem.

  • Given that nerfs are in order, the 4p strength buff should probably be reduced to ~1% per stack.
  • The 2p should also be reduced to keep it in line with other bonuses. Halving the CS efficiency bonus from 10% → 5% would help ensure the 4p remains stronger than the 2p.

These two changes together would take the 2p down to ~4.5%, the 4p down to ~6%, and the combined value down to ~11%, which is roughly on par with Fury’s tier set. Of course, these are extremely early numbers with little extra optimization behind them.

On the bright side, there do not appear to be any major bugs or issues with the set. The 2p duration does not affect Colossus Smash applied by Enduring Blow, although the efficiency bonus does - I presume this is intended however, and it makes sense to work that way.

There’s some question as to the intended behavior of the 4p, with some believing that the Pile On (Op/Str) buffs are only meant to be triggered during Colossus Smash, although the way the tooltip is written does not support that theory. It wouldn’t make much of a difference anyway, since Arms can already easily maintain a 60%+ Colossus Smash uptime - restricting the bonus to CS would only reduce it’s uptime from ~95% to ~87%, and still leave the combined bonuses more than twice as strong as they should be.

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My testing for the set bonus was approximately around 24% which is about the same as yours. Yes its a bit overtuned, but i’d rather they nerf the 4 piece and leave the 2 piece as is. The reason the 2 piece is strong is because the 4 piece is a bit overtuned.

I’d suggest nerfing it to 2% strength up to 10% and keep it they way it is, or nerf it being able to proc overpower with the legendary so the uptime won’t be so high. If you overnerf the arms set, no one is going to play arms, fury is really good on single target AND aoe with that set. Fury set is also more fun.

The 2p is very strong all on its own (roughly 6-7%), and presuming that the complete set should be within the historical 8-12% range, there’s no number you could nerf the 4p to without it being weaker than the 2p bonus… which is thematically backwards.

The 4p, meanwhile, is upwards 17% by itself (you can’t really test this in-game, but it’s easily demonstrated with simulations), which alone is greater than the average expectation for a complete set bonus. Both need to be nerfed, there’s really no two ways about it, but if you’re interested in talking exact numbers, feel free to join the discord.

With regards to your final sentiment; “Keep the set overpowered so people play the spec” isn’t a very good argument, because ultimately tuning and class/spec viability is based on a lot more than just any one bonus. You could also make the exact opposite argument in reverse - “if they don’t nerf it, nobody will want to play Fury!”, so the idea doesn’t really hold up that well.

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The biggest thing I will disagree is that we don’t want an over nerfed set on Arms making all warriors play Fury which defeats the purpose. I feel your over reacting because of sims over actual in combat testing (and I’m not talking about just hitting a dummy). I can see Necrolords having a bit more power with the set then the other 3 covenants due to a conduit if that is where your sims are taking you.

Ramp ups for Arms has never been good for the spec due to either being so poorly done (think Cata when they tried a ramp up and it was so failed in mobile combat, you couldn’t get the full use of the ramp up on the target too the Focus Rage in Legion where many Arms didn’t enjoy it despite the numbers and how Blizzard kept tuning it).

Nerfing the % down to 1% defeats the purpose of a good ramp up to the sepc. The value you gain right now to the str is less then 200 extra value to the primary stat as a non necrolord at full stacks with a full 252 tier set is not really game changing at all. If you want to make sure you don’t have the uptime, then they should change the proc rate, not the str buff.

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The ramp up takes all of 30 seconds at most and never falls off without forced downtime. Calling it a ramp up in the first place is frankly overstating it. In the majority of cases, 5 stacks will be reached within the first Colossus Smash window, and changing the uptime doesn’t affect that (it just makes the bonus drop off more often, creating a more gimmicky and unreliable bonus - that’s fine, but it still results in a necessary nerf either way).

For what it’s worth, simulations don’t imply a lack of actual in combat testing, but nobody is arguing for “overnerfing” (the suggested values do the exact opposite). Even 10% strength >90% of the time in sustained combat is an incredibly powerful bonus.

At any rate, feel free to join the discord if you’d like to discuss specifics or breakdown numbers in depth, otherwise I’d prefer not to unnecessarily derail any other poster’s feedback in this forum with debate.

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The fury warrior set is great but it functions a little wierd with the Reckless Abandon talent. When you extend your current casted Recklessness with the 4pc/Venthyr Legendary or you proc one outside of it, it does not empower your abilities. When going for maximum extending of the buff your empowered abilities do not last longer than 30s even if you keep Recklessness up longer. I think it should allow you to use your empowered Bloodthirst and Raging Blow so that this talent is actually useful in this row.

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The talent is actually the strongest in the row right now for everyone but Necrolord, because it generates a full 50 rage every time Recklessness is triggered or extended, increasing total rage generation by ~8-10%.

Normally, effects which trigger a shorter Recklessness generate a proportional amount of rage (15), though they don’t trigger Reckless Abandon’s ability override - this actually a separate buff called Reckless Abandon, which you can see in the combat log but is hidden from the UI - Signet of Tormented Kings and Sinful Surge are exceptions in that they will extend an existing Reckless Abandon, though they cannot not trigger it if it’s not already active.

You’re absolutely right that this is confusing behavior, although it’s kind of tricky, because both generating a full 50 rage and triggering the ability override would be leave the talent in a very dominant position.

I knew the interaction was a little iffy and confusing, obviously you don’t want the 50 rage to generate on 4pc procs, but when using it and maintaining Recklessness it would be a nice change to uphold the buff if you are extending a current casted Reck. I think we have all found that even when RA is the mathematically best talent in the row it’s tough to optimize. I think allowing the use of the empowered abilities would be very nice on the 4pc procs/extensions with the 4pc procs. As long as it doesn’t go too crazy on being overpowered.

Another side note I forgot to include is you cannot extend a Recklessness buff to be longer than 30s. Not the biggest issue but I’m not sure its intended, with the new set and as a venthyr particularly if you are talented into Anger Management if you cast Recklessness on top of another it will not make the buff go above 30s left on it. Same goes for Condemn extending, but oddly enough your 4pc procs can make it go above 30s remaining. Just unsure if this is an intended interaction.

It was a late stage change in 9.1 development, because Sinful Surge allowed people to game Recklessness out to a multi-hour long duration and do silly things with it.

I agree that extending out the Reckless Abandon ability replacement would be preferred, and perhaps reducing the rage generation to 15 would balance the talent out “enough” to do both. My bigger concern is that very few players even want to play with Reckless Abandon, due to how finicky the auto-charge on Crushing Blow is. It’s technically the strongest talent for Venthyr in 9.1, but extremely few players bother with it because it’s just so easy to get yourself killed on fights with important movement mechanics (e.g. Remnant, Painsmith, Sylvanas).

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