Class Set Feedback: Warlock

In this thread, we’re gathering focused feedback on the Warlock class set, coming in Eternity’s End.

Please note that initially in the PTR, class sets are a work in progress and will undergo substantial design changes in the near future. We’ll let you know the details of those changes as they are developed, both here in this thread and in our Development Notes thread.

Thank you for testing Eternity’s End with us!

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The affic set seems really exciting for single target and two target fights, but so far seems like the added complexity in more then two targets will fall off vs seed spam which is both fine i guess and sorta disappointing. However, the four set seems to prime a return to snapshotting for affliction which would be very exciting for the spec.

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While I appreciate the intent of the Destruction tier set bonuses, I don’t think the best thing for the spec are more RNG mechanics. Between the Mastery effect, RoC playstyle, and its feedback loop with Wilfreds, guaranteed and consistent effects would be much appreciated.

The ‘chaotic’ theme fits well enough, but with layers on layers of RNG baked into powerful systems, it makes for such a feast or famine play experience that is incredibly frustrating, even when the cards fall in your favor.

The 4-pc is shaping up to be really cool but 2-pc brings a great deal of concern. Personally, I’d much prefer something where “for every X soulshards spent, your next Chaos Bolt or Rain of Fire is free”.

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For affliction: I think it’s really cool how both 2pc-4pc synergizes between themselves, allowing you to not having to refresh your dots so often and playing more around Malefic Rapture more, but it doesn’t really seem that is gonna help that much at least for ST scenarios. Now, assuming this is gonna be the same set bonuses for pvp too, neither the 2pc or the 4pc feel good for PVP AT ALL. You never, and I mean, NEVER, cast neither shadowbolt nor DrainSoul while on pvp, you’re better off /dance than even try to cast your fillers, so for PVE this seems pretty good with a lot of potential for multi-target scenarios, for PVP this is just terrible.

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there’s a world where necrolord malefic wrath aff (assuming drain soul’s proc rate on 4p is actually useful) can just sit and empowered drain for a LONG time since MR is gonna extend dots, you got DB to buff the drain even more, and then execute. it wont be bursty i dont think…so viability is a maybe…but i think aff will have a stronger ST/execute profile than it currently does numerically.

edit: as a basic feedback loop coupled with Withering bolt and any other filler damage % trimmings, this could be super strong but the proc % seems to be the crux of everything. 4% per tick is…a biit low. id let the math guys find something that actually makes the balance fair between SB/DS for players who dont use DS in their content

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Destro Tier set: (Looking a ST, target dummy perspective) we sorta need this to interact with Rain of Chaos for this to actually feel and play like the (seemingly, correct me if im wrong) snowball-centric proc system of ROC and our 2 piece chain spawning infernals and fueling single target or AOE depending on setting. feels extremely Snack or famine. Snack is intentionally used here.

without ROC interaction and the ability to potentially proc mini infernal chains OUTSIDE of our main infernal to fuel more bolts and some damage, and with destro’s numeric tuning at the moment, this is pretty underwhelming at first glance in anythign that isnt mass AOE.

side note per Kalamazi: maybe ROF procs ROF free and CB procs CB? that way were not casting ROF in single target?

Affliction set seems to override Absolute corruption and give it a duration when MR is cast? sometimes?

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From my perspective, I’m not heartbroken if it doesn’t work with RoC because the RNG snowball (as I elaborated above) introduces too much variance with identical play BUT …I wholeheartedly agree that other numbers tuning is needed for the spec if that’s the case.

Casting RoF single target, even from a free no-resource proc, feels bad. I’d echo that Rain of Fire giving free Rain of Fire and Chaos Bolt giving free Chaos Bolt would play much smoother and would be preferred over the current iteration.

To jump into this a bit further even, it seems counter intuitive to proc the AoE from the ST and the ST from the AoE. Imagine a large M+ pull with 10-15 mobs and you’re using RoF to get tons of AoE damage. That Chaos Bolt proc might trigger and even though the Infernal it spawns would be great, in that very moment, consuming that proc is actually a DPS loss over casting RoF again. If you lack the 4-pc and only have the 2-pc, it would always be a loss. This is even more the case when using Wilfreds/RoC.

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Not a fan of the destro bonuses. Forcing AOE in ST and ST in AOE doesn’t feel good, and as others have mentioned an additional layer of RNG is not fun.

I miss when destro was the iconic big-button spec and wish there was a way to bring that back in a way with the tier set.

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Aff 2 set tier bonus feels weird without it extending Siphon Life duration. Also it would be nice for an increase on the drain soul proc on the 4 set bonus. Maybe somewhere around 6-8% chance on drain soul? 4% feels very low.

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I think the aff tier set feels fine and accomplishes the goal of doubling down on affliction being a more useful spec in council or long term split boss damage. With rapture windows being tight already, this alleviates some of the pain of setting up and the “clunkiness” or restrictive nature the rotation feels (hectic etc.). Increasing the % on drain soul just reinforces that talent as being the best in the row, where we should be able to use the others in niche scenarios as well I think it seems okay where it is.

The demonology set in this current iteration is very good; three dogs lets you set up larger burst scenarios with dreadlash, while also allowing for grim inquisitor to play a role in cleave scenarios. However, with both the 2pc and 4pc affecting shard generation, there are simply too many shards coming in for the player to use, especially when hand of gul’dan is a 3 shard cast. If you use HoG at 5 shards you waste a shard by using two demonbolts back to back (since we’re flooded with demonbolts due to the 2pc). If anything, make the 4pc (or more interestingly the 2 piece) allow 4 shard hand of gul’dans so that you can at least use two demon bolts back to back to spend the procs without wasting them. Best case scenario would be bumping up demonbolt cap from 4 to some higher number.

I get what you guys were going for with destro, but the set is just completely unreliable in any sense. Perhaps making it too reliable goes against the design goal, but if anything maybe making the 2 pc stack the percentages by each succesive cast would make it feel better. So, for example, if you cast chaos bolt the first cast has a 20% chance, the second cast has a 40%, third cast has a 60% etc. It allows us to get that payoff of being able to dump shards more freely during the small infernal burn windows. Not trying to go too deep into spec design philosophy here, but destro is built as a reliable spec in the sense that you can save shards to use them at relevant times (important add, cd windows). Having the design of this tier set counter this reliability is what makes it feel bad to use in practice. Having an infernal drop down outside of a planned damage window just makes you feel like you’re throwing out damage for no reason–hence why I mentioned giving the tier more reliability would make it feel better and more controlled.

Bonus Feedback for destro (What I’d personally like to see)
If you guys are feeling especially radical, switching the set to every X number of casts makes the other free would at least allow us to save an infernal burn from the 4pc for important moments giving the player more agency. To give this some more weight, lets say every 4th chaos bolt gives you a free rain of fire. that means that every 16 chaos bolts gives you a free chaos bolt (from using 4 free rain of fires). The player can choose if they spend that free cast of chaos bolt or save it to proc infernal at a more opportune time. On the other hand, for those who don’t care too much for those nuances, it just feels good counting and knowing that something fun is coming up.

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I feel that both the Destruction 2 and 4 piece need a bit of attention. The 2 piece bonus in single/two target settings feels underwhelming with Rain of Fire being so lackluster damage wise in those scenarios. In AOE however, the instant cast Chaos Bolt and the Infernal it brings feels strong and fits the spec well. I think a decent way to address the single target Rain of Fire issue would be to potentially change the bonus to make EITHER Chaos Bolt OR Rain of Fire free when you proc the effect but potentially place a small ICD on the effect if need be, to stop excessive RNG chains. It would allow for more relevant Chaos Bolt casts in single/two target settings and the same goes for Rain of Fire in AOE.

There is also the issue of bad RNG with the 2 piece and not receiving any procs well beyond every 5th cast (20% proc chance). That coupled with the 4 piece being dependent upon the 2 piece proccing makes the tier set feel extremely disappointing at times. A change to something along the lines of “after X shards spent” or “Every 5th ROF/CB cast” grants you a proc would help tremendously with consistency.

When it comes to the 4 piece bonus I feel the Infernal’s spawned from it should trigger Rain of Chaos. Having a 4 piece that is dependent upon the 2 piece itself proccing already feels lackluster and not having any kind of real talent relevancy feels worse. Both Rain of Chaos and Wilfred’s Sigil are not our strongest options in single target but if the 4 piece did interact with Rain of Chaos it would add value to both.

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Speaking of the Drain Soul vs Shadow Bolt procrate.

Across 30 seconds, the chances of 1 single proc happening for Shadow bolt is around 96%, while Drain Soul will be closer to 70%, pushing Drain Soul proc chance to 8% will bring the odds to 91%, pushing to 10% chance to proc will bring the chances to around 95%.

Now, there is some consideration to talk about Shadow bolt requiring a full 2s commit for each event while Drain Soul will have events every 1 seconds.

But considering Nightfall can play some part in favor of Shadow bolt as well, i would find pretty fair for the Affliction effect [4] to be at 10% chance to proc on each drain soul tick.

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Affliction: The 2p of this tier set improves the specs current’s strengths in multi target scenarios as well a nice bonus in single target. I’d like to see the 4p changed to something more consistent or reliable a free rapture outside of our burst window has pretty low value. The 4p is synergistic with the malefic wraith legendary but its also very rng whether you’re able to get the extension on the 3stack buff from this legendary before you start pooling for your next cool down window. I’d like to see the proc rate of the 4p increased or tied to dots in some shape or form if possible to help push the proc rate up a little higher. Not that tier sets are designed with pvp in mind but the move to dot’s proccing the tier set would provide it some use in that content so warlocks have something entering the arena.

Demonolgy: This seems to be the most successful of the tier sets for warlock. The 2p feeds well into a smoother playstyle through the usage of Dreadlash and From the Shadows talents while offering more demoncore procs to play with. As of right now the 4p on ptr seems to be bugged offering an insane amount of shards/imps to utilize slightly skewing the strength of demonology. If this is fixed I’d still consider reworking how it works by buffing the proc rate to 10~15% per shard spent to make it more consistent and reliable(or move to after X amount of Hand of Guldan casts to make it more deterministic as rng feels bad). As mentioned in Magnifi’s post increasing the demon bolt cap is something that should be considered with our current flow of demon core procs, but not sure if this will solve it self if the 4p set bonus is fixed.

Destruction: This is a tier set that looks good on paper but in actuality is pretty underwhelming. In raw single target/2target cleave the proc rate for chaos bolt is too low to trigger herald of chaos. Interestingly in multi target with the inferno talent rain of fire spam provides destruction a “funnel” type playstyle where you are chaining instant cast rain of fires and feeding your shard generation with instant cast chaos bolts. The proc rate seems more reasonable for the rain of fire playstyle. I’d like to see an increase to chaos bolts chance to proc the 2piece bonus or make it deterministic. Another suggestion I’d like to make is removing the “other” clause and allow us to choose what to cast freely. This will make destruction flow a lot better and allow players to have the decision on what they need in a given fight scenario. As cool as casting Rain of Fire in single target to spawn and infernal sounds it doesn’t work out.

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Taking a look at the destro tiers. I think that the 2 piece would be better if it was a either/or on those abilities. I like the idea of possible funnel damage in an AoE setting, added single target or added AoE. Having to cast Rain of fire in single target feels clunky.
I like the idea of having reign of chaos attached to the infernal summoned, it would feels like having VoP back. Another idea would be to switch out the 4 piece with an updated grimoire or supremacy having it work on both chaos bolt and RoF. Adding a free Rof and/or a free CB in a supremacy window would feel synergistic and the rng would still be there but it’s a positive gain feeling vs a proc fishing feeling

Destro set: the two piece needs reworked. Rain of fire is useless in ST. So, in ST fights, the 2 piece is literally worthless.

Make it so the set procs both rof and cb so the appropriate spell can be used in the right situation and it’s fine.

Should the Malicious Imp summoned by Demonology 4 set work with talent Demonic Consumption to empower the tyrant? It currently does not.

Edit:
Ok, i can confirm this is happening, explanation bellow.

At 58k of Health, and Each Wild Imp 8.8k of Health, with 3 Wild Imps as the only Demonic Consumption buffers, the buff was 396 of damage buff, or 132 for Each Wild Imp, who is very in line with the DeCon damage bonus formula [15% of the HP drained, divided by 10 = the damage bonus of that demon]

Now, i equip the [4] piece bonus, my HP goes a little higher to 59k, Wild Imps goes to 8.9k of Health, with 3 Wild Imps and 1 Malicious Imp the Demonic Consumption buff goes to 399, considering that the buff of each Imp is 133 [8.9k *0,15 and then divided by 10 = 133] this mean the Malicious Imp is out of the white list for Demonic Consumption as the buff with it added should have been at the house of 532.

It still shouldn’t be a huge gain/loss having it interact or not with DeCon.

-27 chaosbolts before one RoF proc. Is there ZERO bad luck protection?

-In almost zero situations ever, have I needed to cast RoF while CB is primary dmg ability and vice versa. This set encourages clunky playstyle.

-RoF in ST, council, or any aside from aoe pad is abysmal damage and feels bad to cast.

-8 Second infernal equals minor immolation damage and 1 shard depending on situation, very underwhelming

-The infernal proc’d doesnt benefit Wilfreds (Which already feels bad taking imo) nor does it proc RoC. Even if it did, wed lose cinders and Roaring blaze which is pretty much our damage output on most fights EXCEPT pad fights. Which nearly every other class has a spec that does better anyways.

-This set, in my opinion needs redesigned. Destro lost a lot when we lost toggle fire and brimstone going into Legion. Thats ultimately when destro lost its identity. Everything about the spec is RNG, and baking heavy RNG+poor function in a set bonus is really a feelsbad. Especially when sets like fire mage exist, which is beautiful and has amazing interaction/synergy with the spec. You can plan for it, set up, etc. Destro set is pretty well bad in any scenario imaginable in this current iteration.

The RNG component of the Destruction set feels bad to play. There are multiple reports of going minutes casting without procs. We need it to have a redesign please or add some type of in-game mechanic so we have consistency. Also, please make the 4-piece proc for the next of BOTH Rain of Fire and Chaos Bolt so we don’t feel the need to cast RoF on a single target. It would also feel better if it interacted with Rain of Chaos.

Thanks

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Afflicition Set Feedback:
2-Set: This is great and provides a great QOL improvement - MR dmg might still need tuning - 15% is not enough to catch other classes after 9.1 nerfs, esp in single target (perhaps tuning focused malignancy). It should extend siphon life - even as a talent, this is a maintenance DOT - having the set extend SL will make the play-style much smoother and will mainly improve Aff’s niche in council style fights.
4-Set: As many others have said proc-rate on DS needs to be increased probably to around 10% to keep it close to shadowbolt. Many players prefer to stick to the dot’s and drains - so I would hope DS would remain a competitive option. But overall the proc-rate needs to be higher overall, several ways to achieve this: simply buff both sb and ds proc, OR add a small proc chance to Unstable Affliciton’s ticks (in addition to DS and SB) - this would add a more stable chance to proc in addition to active chances to proc (which is good - woudn’t want it to be all passive), as well as adding proc to a spell that is used in pvp and M+. Allow the procs to stack (at least 2)- this will help with movement and not having to clip DS to MR. Another option would be to add other active triggers, for example Drain life (for pvp), and personally I think having StS casts able to trigger the free MR would be a fun playstyle in M+, that way you are weaving in MR’s into your StS rotation, extending your dots - would make the 4 piece overall more impactful in M+ and encourage spreading more dots on packs.

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