Class Set Feedback: Demon Hunter

In this thread, we’re gathering focused feedback on the Demon Hunter class set, coming in Eternity’s End.

Please note that initially in the PTR, class sets are a work in progress and will undergo substantial design changes in the near future. We’ll let you know the details of those changes as they are developed, both here in this thread and in our Development Notes thread.

Thank you for testing Eternity’s End with us!

Hello, some preliminary feedback for the current proposed set bonus;

…long story short, with the variety of Havoc builds that will see play, Blade Dance is only effective for some of those playstyles, and using the button otherwise is incapable of meshing with it. Please reconsider which ability this tier will impact. Thank you!

23 Likes

The Demon Hunter Set feels very underwhelming. While it gives a numerical increase to our dps it doesn’t change our rotation at all.

What it does do is force you to spec into first blood talent limiting the amount of builds we can play.

I Suggest a new tier set which works to reduce metamorphosis cooldown.

2 Set - Enemies Damaged by Vengeful retreat are marked take x% increased damage for x amount of time.

4 Set - damaging enemies marked by VR reduces the cooldown of meta by x amount of time.

You have other options as well
X Fury spent reduces meta cooldown.
VR reduces fury costs of abilities by 50% for x amount of time.

You could also do something like marking targets with Vengeful retreat. Targets are marked for x amount of time. When the debuff ends it explodes for x% of damage taken.

please reconsider :slight_smile:

3 Likes

Yeah, how about no. This tier set must have Blade Dance bonuses, otherwise it will just push current strongest builds that don’t use Blade Dance even further.

Set bonuses are supposed to offer variety and new ways of playing a class. NOT pressing Blade Dance has already been the “meta” for 2 tiers both in and outside raid.

Just please consider putting some cooler effects on the 2 set other than just plain 20% damage increase.

9 Likes

It doesn’t have to have anything. This tier set would be fine if we didn’t have the additional layer of covenants on top of this. If they freed up the Legendary restriction and you could run Burning Wound, Chaos Theory, and still be Night Fae it would work. If Covenants were gone entirely it would also work. The indisputable current fact is Venthyr is simply better for sustained cleave or patchwerk fights and the only way the tier overwrites that is if it buffs Blade Dance to be absolutely broken.

This tier set is in contradiction to the entire main system that we currently have to play around. “It has to have Blade Dance as the bonus,” is a plain fallacy and if you cannot understand why I don’t know what else to tell you.

9 Likes

The major issue with the tier set for havoc is twofold. Firstly, the 2 and 4 piece sets are just boring. a flat damage increase to BD is a welcome inclusion, but the second half of the 4 piece works out to a very minor increase in the number of blade dances we do. Besides it being boring, the major issue with the tier set is how it aims to interact with us for raid. At the moment, venthyr is leagues ahead of any other build in single target or cleave (with two legos), with the talent taken being cycle of hatred. Without first blood, blade dance is not worth pressing in single target, thus, our highest damage build would lead to us ignoring the tier set entirely, causing little to no benefit to raid. Some form of buff to more used abilities, such as immolation aura, eyebeam, demon’s bite/blades, meta, chaos strike, etc, would allow for more builds to be viable, while also leading to us not ignoring the tier set in a raid setting.

2 Likes

It’s not a fallacy, you have to take into account what other abilities this could affect and DH does not have many.

Any Eye Beam interaction would push Venthyr as the defacto build for anything;
Fel Rush/VR would push momentum which is already meta in M+
Chaos Strike increase would also push for Venthyr because of Cycle of Hatred interaction.
Immolation Aura would make the set completely passive, also cementing Everburn as a locked legendary for any build.

Since sets only affect base abilities the only one left is Blade Dance, which has already been ignored for far too long, the buffs to DWF came way too late and even with them, Venthyr AG is looking to be a dominating build CURRENTLY with decent RNG. Next tier, even without legendary restrictions the community was already speculating Venthyr AG+DGB to be taken hard locked.

Again, I repeat, tier sets are supposed to shake up meta, not feed into it.

3 Likes

The 2 pc bonus is what ever. Should just be a tuning pass.

The 4pc sounds like way too much rng

And btw as things stand right now we wouldn’t press blade dance on single target while playing venthyr even with the tier set which means the tier set is useless in single target and mediocre on cleave / aoe

If you’re gonna keep the set bonuses same then the 4pc needs to be buffed numerically and probably change 2 pc app together and make it 3 min meta instead of 20% dmg to blade dance

And the 20% to blade dance should just be a tuning pass.

TLDR: we really want meta cd reduction and not buff to blade dance that should be a tuning pass. Not pressing blade dance isn’t fun and not being in meta dmg fun

Edit: also who ever is suggesting momentum based tier sets…. Momentum build is ugly and cringe

4 Likes

reducing meta cd would just push venthyr further ahead. Read the effect of Sinful Brand, it applies AoE when you use it.

2pc: Blade dance reduces CD of Eyebeam by 3 secs (100%)
4pc: Keep it but buff the empowered reset chance to like 20 - 25%
Gotta keep the havoc casino tradition alive.

Maybe this maybe not… i feel like this is a step towards addressing the issue of disliking having a dead button on their action bar while also addressing the issue of having a tier set that is counter intuitive to our ‘current’ best raid build.
All while at the same time giving it a decent benefit in m+ as well.
or maybe im an idiot and missed the point completely.
I am a havoc main and all.

2 Likes

When has Havoc played Venthyr seriously this expansion outside of now? You also did use Blade Dance in early Nathria. You also used Blade Dance all of last expansion. If there is burst cleave you’re already Night Fae. If you read my suggestion I could at least find something all playstyles like. You don’t even want an effort to be made to allow for the tier set to be used for anywhere from 33-50% of encounters in the next raid. That’s bad, it’s not helping Blade Dance, it’s just making the tier ineffective.

Again, this tier does not have to be a Blade Dance tier. What it should do is introduce new playstyles within the current existing choices. Night Fae will always be burst cleave. Venthyr will always be sustained. How do you mix up the talents those two playstyles take?

2 Likes

For the havoc set is too focused on blade dance and its not focusing on havoc weakness which is the single target, i would like to see some chaos strike set bonus with a bit of aoe.

For the vengeance set is awful doesnt give any survivability or healing, i would like to maybe some fel devastation or meta bonus with some synergy with fracture.

Oh thanks for reminding me.

Yes as of right now we meta off the target cuz meta sinful brand refreshes the cd doesn’t add to it.

So please fix this.

And yes in aoe venthyr with 3 min meta would be hella pog

2 Likes

Chances are that in single target this bonus will give absolutely nothing

1 Like

We used Blade Dance early in Nathria because Chaos Theory legendary simmed higher. It was a bad legendary RNG based, Blade Dance wasn’t used for damage, it was used only to proc the legendary effect. Everburn was buffed, DHs rejoiced, rest is history.

Also, how is “using Blade Dance all of last expansion” an argument? It’s a core ability. Without it you are a CS/EB bot, talk about 2 buttons spec memes made real. The spec feels completely disjointed when played without it.

If the set won’t do something about Blade Dance, then the balance pass absolutely has to. I remember back in pre-patch Dhs were majority against not pressing Blade dance. Somehow now we have DHs coming out of the woodwork to support and encourage Blizzard in disjointed gameplay because they want the set to favor their parsing numbers. Eye Beam goes brrrr as some people say.

I want a set that offers new possibilities. Blade Dance currently IS a new possibility, it’s just this iteration is really boring and weak.

3 Likes

I think you should promoting for a change to blade dance outside of the tier set because balancing builds through tier sets is really underwhelming.

1 Like

Sadly this is how Blizz does it. They put a tier set and if people like it, might end up becoming core to the class.

The flat buff should be a balance thing.
The 4 set is very under whelming as well.

2 Likes

while Havoc is not best in single target, it’s far from being weak. If anything Havoc weakness is large AoE fights.

This should be tuning. Not in a tier set.

The tier set needs to add flavour to the class. This is very underwhelming. Nothing changes in aoe rotation and nothing changes in single target rotation.

Even with this set bonus the sims will likely show not to use blade dance in ST which would make this tier set worthless in ST

1 Like