Class Set Feedback: Death Knight

One concern I don’t think I’ve seen mentioned yet is the Frost 2pc might incentivize some degenerate gameplay via ignoring other buttons in favor of repeating oblit.

The scenario I’m imagining is more relevant for breath because oblit is a bit more predictable and less resource flooded.

If you have a rime proc and KM proc at the same time, general wisdom is to use the rime proc first. The odds behind getting a KM proc mean you’re less likely to go back to back, so you consume rime, then the KM and hope for another rime. But, because the 2 pc stands to flood you with KM procs, the set would incentivize you to ignore that rime proc and consume the KM first. This situation is made worse by all the effects that flood frost with runes and procs (ME, KF, ERW, BoS generating extra RE procs, Kyrian lego, etc). While it will be more dps, ignoring other buttons you would normally press in favor of spamming another is usually unhealthy for a spec. (Looking at you Dance of Chiji)

Thats my concern on paper at least. It will ultimately depend on seeing it in game and getting a feel for how often it really grants extra KMs.

2 Likes

The 2 Piece summoning a ghoul for 12 seconds seems at odds with the 4 piece triggering six seconds into the summoned ghouls duration.

And outside of the set bonus itself, if we are going to be going heavily into “Unholy is focused on Army Ghouls” Could…we potentially get Last Surprise/Dragged to Hel as a baseline effect, just to future proof any “Extra ghoul effects” to have AOE relevance.

Finally, I will say I dislike the exact wording on the 4 set, at this point there likely needs to be distinctive terminology between our Main ghoul, and AOTD/APOC ghouls.

i agree with making the main ghoul special maybe go back to legion and make it look like an abomination that was alot of fun to have around or even get a glyph to make it look like any necro lord creatures

They took it away because ppl came here whinning so hard about “its ugly i dont like it take it away, im a cry baby over dumb stuff.”

it is an undead creature how is it to be pretty ? lol well would be nice if they brought it back to at least make the main ghoul special

i really liked it, and it gave really good utility, but ppl are wierd

1 Like

Only problem I have with frost set is that you need to get rid of razorice for a normal weapon enchant to optimize dps which feels bad

They took it away because it was a strict dps increase even in ST and had huge utility giving us a 2nd grip. But I agree, bring abom pet back

No they took it because ppl kept whinning it was ugly and they didnt want to use it because it was “mandatory” because of how the cleave worked. It didnt give any direct dps increase you were free to switch to something else if you didnt want to use it. But whinning wins here.

This feedback was written by 翼易(YiYi). He is from the Chinese DK player community. I just helped translate and posted it here on his behalf.
Unholy sets.
First of all, I appreciate the recent change in DK sets. I can see the sincerity from DK class designers.
As a Chinese Wower, I love this game, especially playing Death Knight. I want to send my feedback to DK class designers.
New DK sets improved DK’s execute and single target damage ability. I am more worried about DK’s quick burst AOE ability since that is the most challenging part. For example, Reanimated Shambler is a great Legendary. Can it be further enhanced? Like not just a single Super Zombie explodes, but the whole Army of the Dead go boom.
Let’s change a different perspective to think about it. How about combining plague, the Army of the Dead, and Ghoul. Changing the 4-sets effect from 20% damage increase to a new plague that spreads through the Army of the Dead and Ghoul. Each one of the zombies can spread this plague. Its damage multiplies by the number increased with the Army of the Dead. Or make the Army of the Dead and Ghoul enhance the plague damage.
As a DK player, an undead commander, being able to command powerful Val’kyr and Gargoyle is my heart’s desire.
One last problem about the Unholy DK itself, we are similar to Beast Mastery hunter, too weak without our pet. Frankly, Unholy DK, Beast Mastery Hunter, and Demonology Warlock are too much alike. We hope to see an Unholy DK with a unique class design as an undead commander, not just a plate-wearing hunter or warlock. Of all three DK’s talent specializations, Unholy DK is supposed to be the one “spreading infection.” But the fact is Unholy got the least plague damage of all three talents. DK’s anima power Plaguebringer looks promising by making disease damage occur faster.
That is my expectation for Unholy DK, and I am looking forward to the future Death Knight in 9.2.

5 Likes

Kind of unrelated to the topic, but i wanted to raise a bug with Nightfae and DK currently. I thought this would be the best place to get some eyes on this issue, especially since Nightfae as DK dps is looking like a possibilty next tier.

With the Dreamweaver soulbind, the Field of Blossoms conduit that grants 15% haste for X seconds upon use of a covenant abilty is inconsistent in duration for Frost when compared to other classes/specs in the game. For every other class, the formula for this conduit appears to be 20% uptime, or NF ability cooldown divided by 5. For example, my shamans 2min CD gives this effect for 24sec, my DH ability with a 90sec CD is 18 sec duration, e.t.c.

For my Frost DK, the 30 second CD NF ability Deaths Due which replaces our Death and Decay procs a Field of Blossoms which only lasts for 3 seconds, coming to 10% uptime. Going off consistency for every other NF class/spec in the game, this should be 6 seconds or 20% uptime. I assume this has something to do with Blood DK who’s DnD is on a 15 second CD and also has a 3 second duration, which is 20% uptime for them.

I believe this is something unintended as the cooldown for Deaths Due differs for each DK spec, yet they all have the same Field of Blossoms duration. Given it is 20% uptime for Blood and they have the lowest CD DnD of the 3 DK specs, the 3 second Field of Blossoms duration seems to have been given to all 3 DK specs without consideration of their different DnD CD, since no other class in the game faces a similar issue.

This was likely not brought up in the past due to NF being an extremely unpopular choice for DK’s. However, I believe it should be addressed going into 9.2 where NF is looking to be a very viable option for DPS DK’s and the Dreamweaver soulbind specifically being very strong for progression raiding especially when taking into account podtender.

To end on a side note, the DK tier sets are looking great and im looking forward to trying them out next tier :smiley:

2 Likes

You’re right, the suggestions I mentioned earlier can potentially make the problem bigger. After some additional PTR testing, this original tier set greatly benefits DW more than 2H and you’re partly right, it benefits 2H but not most.

However, the problem I am pointing out is this frost spec has been going back and forth between two complete different viable builds which is part of the reasons why FDK is in such a poor DPS state. In this current tier, DW BoS is already a way to go and should have tier set provide some form of utility at the very least for DW rather than attempting to benefit both builds at once but hardly succeeded in doing so. The DW BoS build has proven time and time again in the past that it was the superior build over 2H in both PvP and PvE content.

In addition, our loot spec also contains 2H weapons when majority of FDK players goes DW BoS. It’s senseless to include 2H in our loot other than for cosmetic which you can simply change loot spec to UH.

FDK is one of few specs if not only, that can somehow run both complete different builds but confuses a lot of people on deciding which build to go with. That’s why FDK hardly shines as a DPS spec when comparing with others DPS classes.

Just recently, a blue post was posted regarding about DKs and I think 2pc tier mentioned in blue post is actually the right move.

Imo the current version of soul reaper is not very fun to play around and revolving the tier set around randomly procing it outside of execute also does not sound very fun.

I really like the idea of having an execute or other damage profile niche, as well as the flavour of summoning extra ghouls throughout the fight.

Current soul reaper requires players to gauge their entire party’s or raid’s damage per second well before execute range so that the first soul reaper procs at 35% instead of 6 seconds into <35%. Estimating wrong or not at all feels terrible imo as you have essentially wasted not only your damage and a gcd, but also runes, and cooldown reduction.

I think a possible solution would be for soul reaper to be changed to a powerful dot, only usable below 35%, instead of the current 6-second delayed chunk. The tier set could provide opportunities to apply the dot outside of aoe for surprise burst, and/or amplify the effect to summon ghouls in execute.

This would eliminate the feeling of wasting soul reapers outside of execute, and maintains the execute damage profile we’re going for. Powerful dots are also right in-line with the unholy dk fantasy!

Another thing worth mentioning about current soul reaper is that it is extreeemely hard to use in pvp because healthbars are constantly moving, and rarely below 35% for longer than 6 seconds.

2 Likes

Uh dk has been lacking all of shadowlands and these tier sets are really boring and not going to bring Unholy anywhere near all the other nice tier sets coming out. Having to play around soul reaper a talent nobody even takes? This looks like you ran out of time when coming up with sets for dk. Let’s look into this one please and thank you

What do you mean no one takes? The talent is overwhelmingly taken in both M+ and Raid scenarios because the other 2 are so badly undertuned and it doesn’t help Soul reaper shouldn’t even be competing against 2 pure rune regen talents either.

Sure, it’s rarely taken in pvp, but the newer set actually works in pvp now and can lead to some crazy out of nowhere deaths with frenzied. But I agree, UH dk was smacked with a hammer in CN and is nowhere to be seen in SoD because of the scaling. Our conduits scale like crap, and our double legos are terrible. They need to be addressed before the tier comes out.

2 Likes

I’m obviously talking about pvp. Even in pve the set is bland. Spam scourge to get a SR that isn’t going to do anything till last 35% of a boss. Uh has been lacking in pvp all of shadowlands and this set is leaned more towards pve when they need something to bring back their pvp niche.

Honestly it’s more just evidence that one set can’t be all things to all content. Rather see a return of the pre legion PvP gearing system with pvp specific set bonuses.

1 Like

Let’s make soul reaper trigger an empowered gargoyle :0

Honestly for the unholy 2piece it should be every 5 wounds bursted not every 5 scourge strikes this would have great synergy with apoc and a few pvp talents.

Also the summoned ghouls should last at least 20 seconds or maybe having it summon a magus of the dead/risen skulker would be a better idea.

4 Likes

Every 5 wounds do sound better.

4 Likes