Class Set Feedback: Death Knight

In this thread, we’re gathering focused feedback on the Death Knight class set, coming in Eternity’s End.

Please note that initially in the PTR, class sets are a work in progress and will undergo substantial design changes in the near future. We’ll let you know the details of those changes as they are developed, both here in this thread and in our Development Notes thread.

Thank you for testing Eternity’s End with us!

3 Likes

The Unholy 2-set is interesting but ultimately seems somewhat strange. It presumably only affects the Ghoul, which is fine, and it specifically grants attack speed, not haste. Again, that’s all fine. 20% attack speed to our ghoul with 50-70% uptime is decent. But above 35% mob health this will be a little strange because we will have a number of primary Soul Reaper hits that don’t have the secondary Soul Reaper detonation.

There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just a little weird unless those 2-set activated Soul Reapers are allowed to detonate at any mob health %.

Also, will Soul Reapers created by the 2-set be overwritten by a manually cast talented Soul Reaper at 35% health or below? If so, that’s going to make for a very unfun mini game of waiting for 2-set Soul Reapers to detonate before applying talented Soul Reapers. That’s likely going to lead to Unholy players needing an add on to track. While not a major thing… That’s seems kind of unnecessary when a simpler solution is to just make each Soul Reaper buff independent and thus both can be applied at the same time.

The 4-set is much more interesting but no less confusing. For example, the Ghoul portion of the 4-set…is the Ghoul created an Army of the Dead ghoul, meaning a 30 second duration? The wording leads us to believe it should last 30 seconds.

Also how does this interact with Magus of the Dead? Magus of the Dead activates when we create a ghoul. So, again, presumably the 4-set should create a Magus of the Dead as well. Calculations done with Magus of the Dead included show that the total damage added by the bonuses will equal that of other spec tier sets.

If it doesn’t proc a Magus… the overall power level drops fairly substantially. So it really needs to spawn a Magus. Especially when these tier set bonuses really only truly activate their full benefits for the last 35% of boss fights.

27 Likes

Hi just an question from reading about the frost DK 4 pc do we have to be talent into glacial advance for the move to trigger or can we just use our usual talents ?

Morning/Afternoon/Evening, Knights

Really taking a hyper-fixated focus on the 4-set Unholy bonus “Harvest Time” from the perspective of a “Casual” Heroic Raider 9/10 SoD.

This feels, ON PAPER, potentially very broken. In a fight with many adds or even in trash pulls, there is potential for a LOT of DPS coming from a single character.

Now I am theorizing here: we won’t really know its effectiveness until we get proper access to the new raid and how it’s bosses and trash are structured. It doesn’t seem game breaking per say… but there could be the potential to get many Ghouls on the field during any given fight. While it does fits the class fantasy of an Unholy DK very well, we already have Army and Apocalypse to summon a “legion” of Ghouls, as Army’s flavor text says.

If the Ghouls that Harvest Time summons are the same as Army/Apocalypse, how does this interact with Magus? If it’s a different Ghoul… is that shown? It just seems very confusing.

Now I’m no Mythic raider. Perhaps I’m missing something obvious. And believe me, I’d LOVE to summon however many minions this game will let me.

But for the sake of balance, this seems to me to be potentially very… skewed in Unholy’s favor. I guess we won’t really know until we get our hands on some serious class testing in game.

IF it is stupid strong, (big if) maybe make the Harvest Time Ghouls weaker than the Army/Apocalypse ones? We have plenty of unused Undead models in the game, so it would be also nice if these were visually distinct from the others.

Cheers

One thing you have to understand is that the 4-set only works for the last 35% of boss health. And there are a number of other execute specs out there.

So in terms of actual boss fight uptime, we won’t be getting 35% uptime on the 4-set bonus. It’ll be closer to 25-28%.

4 Likes

Ahhh see that changes things. So what we’re really looking at is a boost to Unholy’s execute power during the last 35%, correct?

While this does quell a lot of my concerns, it could still be very cluttered. Imagine even 5 Unholys in a raid (crazy I know) popping Army/Apoc and Harvest Time during that last 35%. Could feel crowded… or awesome? Or both

1 Like

Correct. The 2-set is active the entire fight. The 4-set only works for 35% and below. That’s a very narrow window that only gets shorter as boss fights move towards farm status.

2 Likes

We don’t actually know till ptr goes up if the 2 set is active full time or not. The buff mentions that soul reapers secondary effect grants the ghoul attack speed.

I don’t believe thats correct. The bonus simply says that “Soul Reaper” applies the pet attack speed bonus. It doesn’t specify the primary or secondary portion of Soul Reaper. You’re thinking of the 4-set. The 4-set specifies the secondary portion of Soul Reaper.

  • NEW Harvest Time (2-Set) Every 5 Clawing Shadows or Scourge Strikes casts Soul Reaper on your target. Soul Reaper grants your pet 20% attack speed for 10 seconds.

  • NEW Harvest Time (4-Set) Whenever Soul Reaper’s secondary effect triggers, summon an Army of the Dead ghoul.

1 Like

It’s part of spell id 364173, which may end up unused, but has a duration and applies the attack speed for the pet.

“Every 5th Scourge Strike casts Soul Reaper on your target. Soul Reaper’s secondary effect grants your Ghoul $s1% attack speed and summons an Army of the Dead ghoul.”

So it could go either way, and we won’t really know until ptr is live.

That spell ID is both bonuses combined though. Spell ID 364392 and 363560 look more specific to what they actually are.

But again, this adds to the point I made earlier: these set bonuses are a little confusing.

1 Like

you can use usual talents

I have concerns about the UH set in that it provides no aoe value. The set bonus, in its current iteration, is by for the worst set for any spec in m+. Execute phases in boss fights are much shorter than in raid, so it will be very common for you to not even get full value out of the first extra ghoul on a boss (assuming they last the duration of an army ghoul rather than an apocalypse ghoul) outside of high keys tyrannical weeks. On regular trash packs, you get almost 0 value from the set outside of the 20% attack speed for the ghoul which is insignificant in aoe. I think the exploding ghoul azerite power (I forget what its called) needs to be added to the tier set for the summoned ghouls. This would add minimal single target damage, but give it actual multi target value. UH DK actually has some of the worst aoe in the game, and this is only going to be exacerbated by the double legendary equip, as our covenant legendaries are some of the worst in the game. Please add some multi target value to the UH tier set.

6 Likes

Is everyone going to be given a set of tier gear to test this out? (On the PTR, of course.)

-EDarkness

With PTR being down until tomorrow so this can’t be tested, PLEASE

Do not make Soul Reaper debuffs over ride each other for the unholy set bonus.

4 Likes

This! If we have to incorporate into our play NOT pressing Soul Reaper on CD during execute because it will overwrite or get overwritten by the 2 piece proc, that will feel really really bad.

Also, another note of concern is how there is 0 interaction between the set boni and and our legendaries. Perhaps the Soul Reaper application mechanism can be moved to Death Coil instead of Scourge Strike/Clawing Shadows, so there is some synergy between the tier set and Deadliest Coil legendary power?

I like specs having niches they excel in, but execute windows are a niche that becomes more and more marginal in raid as the tier goes on, so I’m somewhat worried about the tier set losing its power over time.

Also, although this isn’t strictly about the tier set, I am deeply concerned about the state of our covenant abilities, legendaries, and conduits. Death Knights are set to be the biggest losers of the double legendary system in 9.2, compared to other classes and specs.

6 Likes

Only complaint about the frost 2 piece is that it’s kinda lame and there’s like… Too much power in remorseless winter? I was hoping Pillar of Frost could be powered up in some way, to make Icecap more exciting to use. Something like Frostwhelp or Icy Citadel but granting crit? Obliteration is going to be great with the 4 piece though.

Also since we will be able to drop Razorice, I think the power of the other runeforges should be looked at, they seem like they were kind of added for no reason, they don’t really do anything. Or maybe make Stoneskin Gargoyle usable on 1 hand weapons.

1 Like

I am hoping they do look at the frost set a lil more since they are already tuning alot of the other sets since compared to the others a 8 percent strength for the 2 piece is pretty if i may say lame

Frost 2pc:

  • Free stats are always nice and crit especially will be nice for Breath builds. However, this set means Gathering Storm will become even more mandatory. Frost already struggles with that talent row having a lack of choice.

Frost 4pc:

  • I like tying the effect to consuming KM procs. It opens up some nice possibilities for frostscythe and oblit. Concerns are mostly about the behavior of the Glacial Advance proc. The first is if the GA proc applies razorice. If the GA proc does not apply RI stacks, then the set is underwhelming. The other concern is for GA pathing behavior. Historically, the talent has had issues with hitting targets and this imposes strict positioning to make it work. If we are going to be dealing with GA all tier, some more consistent pathing would make the set feel a lot better.

Unholy set:

  • It’s hard to talk about these separately. The effects are closely linked, which is good. Again, I like the free cast. However, like frost this also makes an already dead talent row even deader. Lots of people have asked if this set means we take a different talent on this row when instead it means SR is more mandatory now. I don’t think is good when unholy already struggles from a significant lack of talent diversity. But, the free casts will improve unholy’s spot as an execute class and make it more valuable on prog. Some concerns about the mechanics of the set include how the SR debuff works and how the summoned ghoul works. Please make the SR debuff from the set different from the debuff from the talent. If manually casting SR overrides or otherwise affects the debuff from the set, then this set will feel bad to play with. It will lead to situations where SR is off cd but you’re waiting to cast it until after the set procs. The other concern is for type of ghoul. Obviously we won’t know this til the PTR drops, but if the summoned ghoul can be a Magus will have significant impact on the feel of the set. One of the big appeals of the Vision of Perfection build in BFA was the constant stream of Magus ghouls. My hope is that this set will also summon a Magus. Otherwise, the feel good factor of this set will diminish as the melee ghouls are often unnoticeable and do not feel impactful outside of Army.
17 Likes

there will be a vendor with the sets on the ptr according to the development notes

1 Like