Class Changes in Visions of N’Zoth

Nice try, but no go; This still doesn’t fix the fact that these don’t scale with secondaries. Without secondary scaling Deathbolt will always take supreme once gear scales. Please fix this properly by adding malific grasp to drain soul, and make the nightfall procs scale with mastery.


So disc got changed drastically (going back to WoD) from a shield and heal spec to a damage=%heal spec because disc was too prominent a spec(ignore that the one healer mythic archi kill was mist, sure) and now… still too prominent, still able to ‘break’ 1st kills.

And with respect to shadow, a 2nd nerf to a talent, “Auspicious Spirits”, because azerite traits that interact with it are too strong. So the underlying idea is, ‘run 3x spiteful apparitions or you suck.’ there? Instead of actually adjusting the numbers on the trait? And then you nerfed the other trait that is part of the build, both dots which are already weak, and how is that remotely sensible or good for the future of the spec? I guess that idea going forward is either that azerite traits will chase us into the next expansion or that you will put Shadow spec in a bag of dead kittens, shake it violently and pour whatever hideous visceral slop comes out into the new shadow spec for 9.0? And all of that is just ignoring that raid fight designs with high target counts are what is pushing any of the dot specs into high chartings.


Thank you for not giving anything to UH dks one of the worst performing specs even after massive buffs.


Can we give rogues poisons back now for all specs? Outlaw ST is straight buns and you took away from the personality of a rogue which alot of players enjoyed. I see why a lot of players left this game with the being of the current state of it.


Like Jessail said.

On a relative note: since you guys try to settle the argument of ‘Drain Soul or Shadowbolt’ by making Drain Soul into a talent (again), hence offering us a ‘choice’, why not do the reverse?

Lets try make Drain Soul baseline, and make Shadowbolt into a talent instead, and see how it works.

After all, if it’s justifiable that Drain Soul can be made into a talent, like wise it is the same for Shadowbolt, does it not?


So, you devs realize this is not a bug and actually a change that was implemented to balance out AS x non-AS Spiteful Apparitions and just wasn’t adjusted as AS nerfs happened, right?


There’s a lot of examples of talent rows across multiple DPS specs in the game where one talent is far ahead of the other two or there’s a talent in the row that is so far behind the others that you never take it for any PvE content; then there are talents such as Arcane Mages’ Supernova spell that are less DPS than not even taking a talent in that row - http s://

This is taken from the standard Arcane Mage sim for 8.2.5, Supernova is a negative DPS ability to use over using nothing, can this spell receive enough of a DPS buff so that it can compete with Charged Up and Resonance in certain situations? The pseudo interrupt element attached to the spell is not justifiable enough in M+ and raids to ever take over one of the other two talents you just end up nerfing yourself.

So…are you going to address the primary reason why those two talents are unappealing or will we be stuck with Deathbolt until 9.0?

While these changes might make DS no longer a DPS loss when taking it, the fact that neither scale with stats means they are almost entirely worthless.

And frankly a 50% increase to something that is already a DPS minus is almost inconsequential.


Sadly I don’t think so. As an arcane mage I can replace “Deathbolt” with numerous other talents. As someone with an affliction lock alt, I feel the warlock community frustration with this nerf and overall lack of choice. I’m sure there are plenty of other classes and specs in this situation as well.

As someone above posted, why does it take so long to get things done? If there’s a bug that benefits players, it’s hotfixed in a couple days so we KNOW there are people monitoring this. Yet for detrimental class issues we wait often more than halfway through an expansion (or longer) for things to be addressed if they’re even addressed at all. Then we’re told “well sorry guys, even though we’re Blizzard and have arguably the most successful game of all time and billions of dollars, we’re not making any major class changes until 9.0.” Then they wonder why subs are under 2m. And yes, I have no proof of that actual number, just a gut feeling given what I’ve seen in game.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again here WOD (even with it’s flaws and them jumping ship from it) > BFA.


I’ve got an arcane mage alt and frankly it’s shameful that it’s come this far.

Still using Warlock as an example since it’s what I’m most familiar with, the problems with Deathbolt/Nightfall/Drain Soul have been well documented for years now.


Since Beta at the most. Why on earth has it gone this long? And this isn’t the first nerf to Deathbolt, it’s been nerfed before but they never addressed the real problems of the spec.

Nightfall only gave…what, a 0.8% DPS increase at the most? It’s an iconic Affliction ability, why isn’t it baseline? People wanted Shadowbolt as our filler because of Nightfall procs. Jokes on us I guess.

And Drain Soul…how many times do they have to make it a talent before they realize it doesn’t work as a talent? DS is, like Nightfall, an iconic warlock ability. All Warlocks should have their SS sniper, five Affliction their execute back.

Neither of those abilities work as talents without absurd levels of buffs and frankly, no matter how hard Blizzard tries, they should never have been talents in the first place.

Sadly all classes feel like this. It’s depressing the state classes are in. Truly depressing.


This really highlights and well dictates the problem with almost all classes in the game. They made it sound all fancy with “LOOK AT THESE ABILITIES WE ARE GIVING BACK TO YOU!!!”

But then they took the mechanics and interactions that we liked about those abilties and either put them in the talent trees (against other mechanical interactions that were desired) or they simply got left out of the game.

A sad, sad state of classes indeed.


No feral buffs still? Feral is basically non existent blizz plz halp

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Probably relieved. Most changes don’t seem to be good nowadays. Poor Disc Priests…

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The state of Arcane has been terrible since they changed how Arcane Missiles and Arcane Explosion works in the alpha for BfA, they were changes none of us asked for for we were beyond happy with how they worked.

And why was Mark of Aluneth taken away from us? You were changing up how it worked early on in the alpha only to prune it from us after years of players telling Blizzard that we don’t like pruning and want our abilities back.
Arcane is the absolute last spec in the game that should ever be losing rotational abilities, the spec is so barren at this point and the talents we do have that add rotational abilities are all so weak and outclassed by passive talents or flat out boring talents in their rows that there’s no real reason to ever take them.

I just do not understand why Blizzard have stated that they aren’t going to make changes to specs other than buffs and nerfs until 9.0, how specs play has been the number 1 complained about issue players have with BfA since the expansion launched.


I agree with you in saying that taking poisons out of a specific spec for rouges just makes them feel thematically weird and out of place. That being said, outlaw rouges, yeah their single target is not very gear, but they are very easy to play and also have extremely good aoe damage.

Please address PvP. Priests, among other classes, are outright terrible right now and we’ve had nothing to address the arena meta. The meta has been unfun, and trash from the get-go in season one when this nonsensical behavior began.

Just because something is good in pve doesn’t mean it’s good in pvp. You all have to know that. Further, fix the bug involving the enchant. Yes, that has to be a bug. There’s no way the easiest enchant to get in arena is also the only character specific award in the entire list of awards. You mean it’s intended that all previous 2400 enchants are fully account wide and capable of being used, but you refuse to adjust a meta or give classes equal time in the sun so people can shine and then on top of it make the easiest enchant at 2100 on the most deflated ladder the only character specific award? Meanwhile people can use the tabard at 2400, and all of the elite mogs across all classes that share that armor type and on both factions?

Address pvp. It needs to be addressed. Fix class balance, fix the reward structure, make the 2.1 enchant account bound proper as every single other enchant has been in the entirety of this game’s existence and address that half of your player base. Please.

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I’ve updated the OP. Now–

  • Mistweaver
    • Rising Mist healing increased 30% 66%, and now extends Heal-over-time effects by 3 4 seconds (was 2 seconds).

disc outdated
glimmer overrated
long have we waited
fistweaver activated

memes asides im just glad to see more attention on rising mist


So basically you are nerfing BrM for no reason. Ok…

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Rising mist was so much fun to play around with during pre-patch. Will be interesting to see if it makes a comeback with these buffs.