Class Changes in Visions of N’Zoth

So no arms buffs I see.

So we’re just going to pretend the spec doesn’t exist for 2 straight raid tiers then I take it. I mean I’m not saying you need to make it better than fury or one of the best ones but could it be playable in a mythic guild?

Like good luck apping to ANY mythic guild and saying, yeah I play arms.

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The warlock change is poorly thought out. The reasoning you give for nerfing Deathbolt is to perhaps shine more light on the other 2 talents in the same row. But even with the nerf Deathbolt is still going to be heads and shoulders above Nightfall and Drain Soul. You need to buff those 2 talents as well if you want the row to have any form of competitive choice. If that’s not your goal then you should just leave Deathbolt as is.


Don’t get me wrong, I hate DB, but this nerf is pointless if they don’t address the problems with the other two talents.

Drain Soul is a DPS loss over not taking a talent FFS…


Why can’t these changes be hotfixes? They are needed right now in Eternal Palace.

For example Arcane was buffed by 8% in a hotfix, but a 20% Ice Lance buff has to wait till 8.3? I don’t get it. Frostmage DPS is at rock bottom in EP. Why does this have to wait for months??


After the recent buffs AND IF you have 3x Test of Might arms damage is actually pretty competitive when played well. It’s a very solid middle/upper middle of the pack.

The bigger problem, IMO, is that is has actually the worst defensive toolkit in the game and no utility offerings either. Fury has better damage, is more versatile, and has better healing/defensives. And it’s not that Fury is too good, it’s just that arms is garbage and that’s more of the problem rather than damage IMO.

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This dev team spends less than a hour of time on class changes per patch.
These changes are essentially already set in stone.


My biggest qualm is that if you’re forced off a target during Test of Might, for any reason you’re kind of screwed damage wise.

I’d like to see them buff other traits to be more comparable with Test of Might. We should have other choices for single target PVE instead of just putting all of our eggs into Test of Might.

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Fury is quite literally the best melee raiding spec in the game.

Don’t believe me? Go the stat page on Warcraftlogs and take a look for yourself.

Don’t get me wrong arms has many MANY problems utility and zero f#@!ing self heals being big ones. But the single biggest one is damage.

Also TOM is terrible design because it is hugely inflexible and does very poorly on fights with cleave (hello the butchering of sweeping strikes this xpac) due to timing constraints.

Your change to worldvein isn’t going to make anyone use it as a major power, just FYI.


100% agree, again TOM is super awkward for a melee spec and is absolutely butchered by missing the window. Honestly it feels like a ranged rotation on a melee spec.

I mean I don’t disagree with that at all. There 100% should be better balance in Azerite, for arms and all specs, I just think it’s a misrepresentation to say that Arms isn’t viable because of damage especially when the survival of the spec is such a glaring issue.

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And just having had it checked by multiple people, it wasn’t fixed.

You took no-IL from ~6% ahead to 3% ahead. Grats I guess?

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That “Bug” with the SA trait that you just nerfed by 75%. That’s a documented hotfix from over a year ago:

(Shadow) Spiteful Apparitions: damage bonus increased by 75% when the Auspicious Spirits talent is not selected.

I’m all for curbing shadow’s trait interactions, but please realise they’re pretty much the only reason shadow does any damage right now. Multi or single target.


I’m not sure what that has to do with Arms. The encounters cater to Fury mechanics quite extensively (especially the earlier fights where most parses are). You can also be quite strong without being imbalanced.

I also realize that casts quite the shadow on Arms, and I do want there to be better balance across Azerite. Merely tempting to offer more concise feedback.

Survival has never kept a sufficiently high dps spec from being valued in a raid environment. I am sorry but you are dead wrong to think that is the biggest issue. If you are on a spec that parses spots #1-2 for ranged/melee you will be brought to mythic raids.

Arms biggest issue is damage because that is ALWAYS the biggest issue.

Affliction Dealthbolt nerf is fine, the talent had it’s time to shine and it’s really fun, but the alternatives sucks so much. Why not buff Drain Soul to be useable once again?

As it stands, we’ll still use Deathbolt because Drain Soul is a dps loss over not taking anything and the other talent is so bland.


Should I be relieved there were no hunter changes or mad?


I mean sure, but expecting arms to always be the top 1/2 spec is hardly a reliable stance to have. Therefore them needing to address other issues with the spec besides just ramping it up to be OP damage.

Well, of course Deathbolt has been the dominant talent in that row. The other two is so s**tty that whoever tunned them probably wasn’t sober at the time.


TOM has constraints, but I don’t think it’s a bad trait. It’s just bad not a single other azerite trait is competitive with it.

Sweeping Strikes does make me a super sad panda though :frowning: