Class Changes in Visions of N’Zoth

Are you actively trying to drive the number of players who play priest to zero? Every person I know that plays priest has begun to play something else or is quitting the game.

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yes they do.

Disc utility is fine. Could be better, but it’s really druids having to much, not disc having to little.

Druids are just broke when it comes to m+.

When are you going to fix the op nature of r druids in m+? their hots, damage, casting while moving, and brez are way OP.


moved post to my Main below

I understand why Blizz feel they need to nerf glimmer. With that said, while I will agree that the cap and now this 12% nerf is needed for glimmer, I would hope for some new azerite trait or buff somewhere else; maybe buff avenging crusader, which is really fun to play, but has limitations and requires prep to do well, and mana is still a concern if you’re not careful but is currently out performed by glimmer.

I have a Holy Pally in my raid who’s playing avenging crusader vs my glimmer build and it does suck how behind on throughput and HPS Avenging Crusader or any regular Holy paladin healing is to glimmer. When it was first introduced I absolutely loved the idea of Avenging Crusader and what it meant for class and spec identity. It was exactly what I wanted for Holy Paladin. I wanted to feel like a melee healer again, and not only were we encouraged to heal from melee, but now we could also do a fair bit of damage, and it worked really well with our mastery. I was hoping to see how the azerite traits and essences would add to, change, synergise or buff Avenging Crusader to make it stronger or even more fun to play as a viable main healing spec for the expansion. Then someone found a way to exploit glimmer and no matter what i tried with AC, it would not be able to match AC. So what mainly worries me about these nerfs to glimmer without changes to the rest of the kit is that we will still be forced to use it if we want to be competitive. Simple put this will not be enough to get players to stop using the glimmer spec. Why?

  1. It’s stupid easy to play if you get the right gear/traits and anyone already using glimmer already meets the gear requirements. 3 glimmer stack -easy to get, haste trinket from mecha= auto BIS trinket no matter what’s in palace, and riot helm or lockjaw shoulder for easy 3 glimmer + 1 Light’s Decree from ret and its GG.
  2. it eliminates mana as a concern for a healing spec, this is a huge advantage on progression mythic content. I’m used to paladins being top choice for wisdom bcause they are supposed to be the tank healers that are great at spot healing, and now there is no mana penalty for machine gunning out holy shock/crusader strike/light of dawn non stop.
  3. It’s capable of Tank/Raid healing while blanketing/spot healing all at the same time, provided you have enough haste. one spec should not be able to literally do it all!!!
  4. It outperforms all other healing specs on throughput. this may change with the nerfs but we’ll see where glimmer falls to and more importantly if top Hpallys will even try to make AC or reg holy pally work competitively.
  5. It completely changed our primary and secondary stat priority from Int>Cri>Mastery>w/e to HASTE>everything else… unless you’re like me and have 3/5 of your inventory full of “what if” gear, it will take time for players to swap back and optimize healing gear, azerite traits, and maybe even essences for the reg spec.

So Blizzard, while I’m sure you already know this, I’m hoping some of the feedback is useful on balancing the Holy Paladin spec as a whole, or change glimmer itself to have some synergy with how “YOU” intended Holy Paladins to work this expac. It’s obvious that for better or worse, glimmer is popular, it works, and even though it’s easy, it’s engaging and can even be fun if only it worked well with the rest of the healing kit. I personally would love to see it changed to synergise with Avenging Crusader because it feel like there is sooooooooo much wasted potential with that talent, I loved it when you first introduced it and all i want is for it to thrive as a core part of holy pally healing.

Love you all, and hope some of this is useful or at least gets the conversation going in the right direction. I would love for more holy paladin players to share their thoughts on this and let’s make AC great again XD!!!


I’ve added these notes to the OP in this thread, as we are now testing:

  • Druid
    • Restoration
      • Mastery: Harmony healing bonus reduced by 9%.
      • High Noon (Azerite Trait) damage reduced by 34%.
        • Developers’ note: Restoration Druid has an overall package of healing, damage, and utility that is very hard to compete with in solo-healed content. Two things that stand out in particular are the efficiency of focused healing on a single target with high Mastery, and the ease of contributing DPS with very little GCD usage on Sunfire.


  • Condensed Life-Force
    • The damage debuff applied by your Guardian’s Azerite Spikes has been reduced to 3% increased damage (was 5%).

Please note, the High Noon reduction we’re testing only applies to the Restoration spec.

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Since Resto Druid M+ damage is clearly the problem, let’s nerf their healing. That’ll show 'em.


They are both the problem. Their healing is absurd, nearly fully mobile and with good mana efficiency.


Way too tiny to make a difference tbh. Resto Druid still has literally like 3x better utility than some other healers, brez alone far exceeds anything other healers have, typhoon ursols is amazing, roots, stealth for skipping (way more useful than youd think even if you already have shroud in group), taunt bouncing, soothe (huge), great mobility and survivability etc.

The damage nerf will be small, they’ll just use 1 less trait and use a stat trait or something instead, still be top damage along with HPal due to sunfire still having good base dmg, catweave and being able to dps while hots are rolling or vice versa. HPS will still be godly in 5man though this will help a little, but have an unfortunate and obviously unneeded raid nerf side effect.

But at least it shows they are somewhat willing to look into mythic+ healer balance… after years… Gonna need a lot more than this though especially considering some other healers like Disc are getting nerfed even harder than this in mythic+ due to raid nerf collateral damage… Need buffs for other healers, preferably combat rez rework or giving it to all healers, along with other utility buffs and damage buffs for specs like Holy Priest, Shaman, Monk etc. or ways they can improve their damage without sacficing so much HPS (be it through requiring too many traits and requiring so much cast time to do any sort of damage at all aka having no Dots but your direct dmg spells still hit like wet noodles)

As is, I see Resto Druids remaining at 70% representation in 20+ keys next tier, in fact it may even rise due to nerfs to other specs, essences AND the new corruption negative affixes (dodging void zones, kitting the seeking mobs) are much easier to deal with for mobile classes, aka resto druid…


Reminder that Shadowy Apparitions was not a bug, and actually an intended chamge:

  • (Shadow) Spiteful Apparitions: damage bonus increased by 75% when the Auspicious Spirits talent is not selected.

Yes, let’s make resto druids even worse in raids just for M+!
Raid? What’s that? Never heard of it! Gotta balance for dungeons!


This is really disappointing. Resto Druid was already struggling to stay relevant in Mythic raids and a blanket HPS nerf (and huge reduction in tank healing) is not going to help matters.

I’ve already got a holy paladin leveled and with essences she needs to be ready to become my main when 8.3 arrives, but I want to play my druid- my first character ever to hit level 60 back in 2006.

If you’re going to nerf resto for Mythic+ Dungeons, fine. Give us something to stay relevant in raids.


Good start, can’t believe I am saying that. Approving of a cs rep’s blue post! I might begin to actually que for a pvp event.

You just need to actually deal with their utility and dps compared to other healers. The healing is NOT the real issue.


Yes their healing is an issue in M+. Everything about them in M+ is an issue with them in M+.


Here’s a free idea for how you can nerf Resto Druid for Mythic + and give them a little boost in raids.

Go ahead and keep this change, but change Early Harvest from

When Wild Growth expires, it heals the target for X if they are injured, or it reduces the cooldown of Innervate by 1 sec if they are not.


When Wild Growth expires, it heals the target for X if they are injured. Increases the number of players affected by Wild Growth by 1.


While this is your idea to “balance” us for mythic plus, you are screwing us for raids. Well done bliz.


One thing they could do for raiding druids to compensate for this is make their actual healing traits worth taking.

EDIT: How about a trait that causes HoTs applied to heal for X whenever Swiftmend is cast? Sound familiar?


Devs can you please address how visions of perfection essence effects Elemental Shamans, Echo of the Elementals. The max duration of Echo of the elementals is currently capped at 40 seconds. Is this intended? Because it has a drastic effect on my dps when i can proc a 120+ second elemental only to have a 40 second echo spawn after.

By increasing the proc rate you must be trying to raise the power of the essence because you feel its underwhelming. If thats the case you also need to look at classes like Elemental Shaman where if it procs more it actually has a negative effect on our total dps potential. Because of the echo being capped at 40 seconds and the essence having no cap at all as far as i can tell.

A better change for solo healed content would be to make Brez baseline to all healing specs in m+? Otherwise these changes will be meaningless typhoon vortex brez soothe is too great. Atleast its some kind of nerf in how many years, so I’m a little grateful to see this. All the other healing specs are pigeonholed into playing with a boomy/dk (warlock is laughable in m+).

Also druids aren’t even that bad in raid especially with these big nerfs to disc and pallies.


blizz doesn’t care about raids or pvp lul