Class Changes in Visions of N’Zoth

My goodness you hatred of mages is definitely a thing. Go play one then and see how much better they are than shadow priests lol

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That’s really the issue I have here. I tend to agree with 99% of what Kaivax said, and actually said so in some of my original posts. So really the claim that I’m mad about the nerfs is a pile of bullcrap. No what I’m angry about is that it is more of the same.

I stand by the assessment that this will hurt the bottom end of Priest players far more than the people who they are trying to rein in. But one can’t stop the White Knight from rushing in and activating the Feral Defender so… :man_shrugging:

I’m glad to see someone sees the same issue though. It comes up a lot on the Priest Discord, and this is largely what spawns the frustration I have; as well as many other players. When we see the level of attention that Mages tend to get from the Developers, and then seeing other classes left in the state they are.

Well then, it’s a good thing I don’t have a hate for Mage.

That would be… very awkward seeing as I have a Zanda and Dwarf one already! :rofl:

No, No. What I hate is the unequal amounts of attention to game-play, communication, general quality of life, polish, and aesthetics. Well that and nonsense like what this fellow just spewed. Alas.

This is why I have nothing more to say to any part of his post, or that of the sock-puppet.

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You can be as “hurt” as you want to pretend to be, but you keep missing the forest for the trees.

  1. People aren’t disagreeing with you that the spriest nerfs are bad. You seem utterly unwilling or unable to get that. We’re WITH you on this, not against you.

  2. You made several asinine claims including how mages get all kinds of attention (arcane would love to discuss this with you), their recent buffs weren’t warranted (again, arcane and frost and their bottom third of all dps would be happy to discuss this with you) and how Blizzard clearly loves mages more because they can teleport (it’s been this way since day one so you’re a bit late to be upset about that). You got called out on these claims and proved wrong. Now you want to claim you’re being attacked and hide in your safe space. Hope it has good internet in there…

  3. You’re 405 IL on that priest. Your raid progression is 7 total bosses in LFR over 4 raids. You have zero mythic+ done this season, not even a +2. You have no noticeable pvp done. Your gear is mostly benthic and barely upgraded. Even the most casual observer can detect you really don’t play your priest much or do much on her. For you to be upset over nerfs is understandable, but to be this angry towards mages, who aren’t in nearly the prime spot you claim them to be, and to lament that Blizzard has a hate-on for the class you’re barely even playing is puzzling to say the least.

  1. If you have two mages, then you should know without question that life is not better overall. Again, fire is doing fine, but when 2/3 of a pure dps spec are vastly under performing, it’s not class favoritism to see them buffed. Nor is it a second slap in the face of priests or anyone else. The two are unrelated and the only correlation is in your mind.

TLDR the priest nerfs suck and prove the devs have serious issues. But your crusade against mages, a class you claim to have two of is both irrelevant to the priest issue and just makes you look petty, especially given the issues of that class. Sorry you don’t like that, but it is what it is.

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I’ll add two other things before I quit this thread, since my ‘playtime’ is now being called into question. Developers ought consider why players like me have 0 interest in the game now. Last expansion I did all Mage Towers on all specs for 4 separate classes, got Mythic 15+ and Balance of Power done as well on my favored classes; one of which was Priest.

Voidform was barely tolerable then as it had Xal’atath’s traits to propped it up. The claim that my Raid Progression this expansion somehow makes my opinion invalid is just another attempt by an angry and entitled Mage-Troll, to attack me directly. Perhaps if BFA wasn’t such a pile of trash, I’d be playing it a lot more.

PVP can burn in a river of acid for all I care along with all the die-hards who want to propagate a Faction conflict that makes 0 sense to continue it in story. PVP tends to bring out the worst in people. I did my PVP back in Classic when it was unbalanced and thus fun. The randomness was what made it enjoyable. Converting it to a E-Sport drove me and many others away.

This expansion I have had 0 interest or drive to do any of the things I did during the Legion Expansion, and the reason boils down quite simply to the Classes themselves. I would love to play my classes, but there is no point to even moving them forward since class design is… well… You can < Insert X Thread on Class Design > here for a good idea of what players think.

We could go back and forth till the end on this, but potatoe, potahtoe. Mages appear to get the lions share of attention, and during the next Beta I expect people can see it for themselves if they want. I accept that it’s just how Blizzard works.

But I won’t act like it is a weird coincidence or that it doesn’t happen. Not when it’s pretty common knowledge that a former Warlock Lead pointed the class bias out on MMOC and got fired over it. What really reinforced his statements however, was the response that came after his removal.

In WoD, Destruction spec Warlocks saw what honestly looked to us players like a vengeance induced redesign of pretty much everything that had that Developer’s touch on it. Human nature rarely changes, and these acts of course definitely reaffirmed the statements made.

The fact that Priests and other classes also got the same, seems to indicate there may be some truth to these claims though I like to hope this is not the case. Really for me as a consumer, it’s simple:

“I don’t mind if the Developers enjoy Mages the most, but they need to remember they have 11 other children while they lavish their favorite with gifts.”

Good luck folks, I’m done with this thread and I don’t want it to turn into a back and forth when there are other classes who have issues the same way as Priest. I’ve said my piece.

If the Developers want me to play the expansion meaningfully instead of focus strictly on role-playing then they need to make the playing of the game itself meaningful next expansion, or I’ll just do the same again. Basically the things that people in the Priest community who are more articulate than I, and more active than I have already posted.

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Again you keep beating this drum even though it’s been refuted repeatedly and ignoring my actual facts. I AGREE with you that BFA hasn’t been particularly good and I’m struggling to find reasons to log on more than about 30 minutes a day if that. But you literally have almost nothing done currently on your priest, in an expansion that, at least for pve, has been pretty kind (up until now) for said class. What you did in Legion is irrelevant to this discussion. Priests haven’t been bad in any raid tier and have (again factually) been quite strong. Mages have… not. I’ve mentioned this like 3 times and you’ve completely ignored it which tells me you have no counter for anything I’ve said.

You can continue to think everything in Blizzardland is a-ok for mages and that the devs love them if that helps you sleep at night, but it’s simply not true. Nor are your accusations that priest, again up until now, have been given the shaft. If you’re really that mad that mages and druids have more glyphs, well then OK, you got me there. Sometimes we just have to suck it up and move on. But please don’t spread blatantly false information about things simply because you’re upset about (again) unjustified nerfs for a class you’ve barely touched.

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I’ve updated the Affliction section in the OP with recent new changes. It now reads:

  • Warlock
    • Affliction
      • Deathbolt now deals 20% of the total remaining damage of the Warlock’s damage over time effects on the target (was 30%).
      • Drain Soul damage increased by 50%.
      • Nightfall now increases the damage of Shadow Bolt by 50% (was 25%), and now activates 33% more often.
        • *Developers’ notes: One of the key concepts about Affliction Warlock is spreading damage over time spells on a number of different targets. While Deathbolt keys off these types of spells, it provides more-than-expected burst damage and outperforms the other two talents in every situation. In addition to reducing Deathbolt’s effectiveness, we’re improving the other two options to give more options to Affliction Warlocks.

At least it won’t be a DPS loss to take Drain Soul as opposed to just taking nothing!

Hopefully the buffs to the other talents are enough to not have to play with Deathbolt.

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I mean, there are some good changes in general here. But, why did it take until now to address these when every single issue you are fixing here was a problem that was reported back in the beta.

WHY, does it take so long to respond to class concerns especially when everything you’re doing here is nothing more than number tuning. It’s been over a year, it’s ridiculous it should take that long to address.

By the way, tons of classes have talents that are just as poorly balanced as that warlock drain soul talent row. Maybe put some more effort into talent balance in general and give us hope you can actually design and balance classes worth a darn again.

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Nice try, but no go; This still doesn’t fix the fact that these don’t scale with secondaries. Without secondary scaling Deathbolt will always take supreme once gear scales. Please fix this properly by adding malific grasp to drain soul, and make the nightfall procs scale with mastery.

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So disc got changed drastically (going back to WoD) from a shield and heal spec to a damage=%heal spec because disc was too prominent a spec(ignore that the one healer mythic archi kill was mist, sure) and now… still too prominent, still able to ‘break’ 1st kills.

And with respect to shadow, a 2nd nerf to a talent, “Auspicious Spirits”, because azerite traits that interact with it are too strong. So the underlying idea is, ‘run 3x spiteful apparitions or you suck.’ there? Instead of actually adjusting the numbers on the trait? And then you nerfed the other trait that is part of the build, both dots which are already weak, and how is that remotely sensible or good for the future of the spec? I guess that idea going forward is either that azerite traits will chase us into the next expansion or that you will put Shadow spec in a bag of dead kittens, shake it violently and pour whatever hideous visceral slop comes out into the new shadow spec for 9.0? And all of that is just ignoring that raid fight designs with high target counts are what is pushing any of the dot specs into high chartings.

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Thank you for not giving anything to UH dks one of the worst performing specs even after massive buffs.

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Can we give rogues poisons back now for all specs? Outlaw ST is straight buns and you took away from the personality of a rogue which alot of players enjoyed. I see why a lot of players left this game with the being of the current state of it.

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Like Jessail said.

On a relative note: since you guys try to settle the argument of ‘Drain Soul or Shadowbolt’ by making Drain Soul into a talent (again), hence offering us a ‘choice’, why not do the reverse?

Lets try make Drain Soul baseline, and make Shadowbolt into a talent instead, and see how it works.

After all, if it’s justifiable that Drain Soul can be made into a talent, like wise it is the same for Shadowbolt, does it not?

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So, you devs realize this is not a bug and actually a change that was implemented to balance out AS x non-AS Spiteful Apparitions and just wasn’t adjusted as AS nerfs happened, right?

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There’s a lot of examples of talent rows across multiple DPS specs in the game where one talent is far ahead of the other two or there’s a talent in the row that is so far behind the others that you never take it for any PvE content; then there are talents such as Arcane Mages’ Supernova spell that are less DPS than not even taking a talent in that row - http s://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/325694580584349707/636360558169554957/unknown.png.

This is taken from the standard Arcane Mage sim for 8.2.5, Supernova is a negative DPS ability to use over using nothing, can this spell receive enough of a DPS buff so that it can compete with Charged Up and Resonance in certain situations? The pseudo interrupt element attached to the spell is not justifiable enough in M+ and raids to ever take over one of the other two talents you just end up nerfing yourself.

So…are you going to address the primary reason why those two talents are unappealing or will we be stuck with Deathbolt until 9.0?

While these changes might make DS no longer a DPS loss when taking it, the fact that neither scale with stats means they are almost entirely worthless.

And frankly a 50% increase to something that is already a DPS minus is almost inconsequential.

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Sadly I don’t think so. As an arcane mage I can replace “Deathbolt” with numerous other talents. As someone with an affliction lock alt, I feel the warlock community frustration with this nerf and overall lack of choice. I’m sure there are plenty of other classes and specs in this situation as well.

As someone above posted, why does it take so long to get things done? If there’s a bug that benefits players, it’s hotfixed in a couple days so we KNOW there are people monitoring this. Yet for detrimental class issues we wait often more than halfway through an expansion (or longer) for things to be addressed if they’re even addressed at all. Then we’re told “well sorry guys, even though we’re Blizzard and have arguably the most successful game of all time and billions of dollars, we’re not making any major class changes until 9.0.” Then they wonder why subs are under 2m. And yes, I have no proof of that actual number, just a gut feeling given what I’ve seen in game.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again here WOD (even with it’s flaws and them jumping ship from it) > BFA.

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I’ve got an arcane mage alt and frankly it’s shameful that it’s come this far.

Still using Warlock as an example since it’s what I’m most familiar with, the problems with Deathbolt/Nightfall/Drain Soul have been well documented for years now.

Years.

Since Beta at the most. Why on earth has it gone this long? And this isn’t the first nerf to Deathbolt, it’s been nerfed before but they never addressed the real problems of the spec.

Nightfall only gave…what, a 0.8% DPS increase at the most? It’s an iconic Affliction ability, why isn’t it baseline? People wanted Shadowbolt as our filler because of Nightfall procs. Jokes on us I guess.

And Drain Soul…how many times do they have to make it a talent before they realize it doesn’t work as a talent? DS is, like Nightfall, an iconic warlock ability. All Warlocks should have their SS sniper, five Affliction their execute back.

Neither of those abilities work as talents without absurd levels of buffs and frankly, no matter how hard Blizzard tries, they should never have been talents in the first place.

Sadly all classes feel like this. It’s depressing the state classes are in. Truly depressing.

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This really highlights and well dictates the problem with almost all classes in the game. They made it sound all fancy with “LOOK AT THESE ABILITIES WE ARE GIVING BACK TO YOU!!!”

But then they took the mechanics and interactions that we liked about those abilties and either put them in the talent trees (against other mechanical interactions that were desired) or they simply got left out of the game.

A sad, sad state of classes indeed.

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No feral buffs still? Feral is basically non existent blizz plz halp

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