Circle of Life and Death + Veinripper or Rip & Tear

I keep seeing people running R&T, but is it really better than stacking CoL&T with VR?

Primal Wrath rips apply Rip & Tear, and the reduced base duration of bleeds with Circle lowers the value of Veinripper.

Oh, interesting. I didn’t know about the interaction between Primal Wrath and Rip & Tear. Thanks!

Somewhat related, but I started typing and just never stopped lol.

People are still figuring things out, but circle is always gonna be used. I’m not a fan of RaT as the damage just isn’t there for me to want to take it. The big reason to take it though is to get Apex with our current talent point limitation. Apex is a very important talent for us in AoE and combos super well w/ soul (free energy refunds off of 0 energy spent!), and apex procs are pretty much the only time you’ll be biting in AoE unless you’re maybe doing some wonky incarn swipe & bite focused build.

Some people like cats curiosity for the near limitless energy in combination with other energy gains / savers. Others find it unnecessary and would rather save a talent point and get a tiny bit more damage out of their rips. Veinripper is better for ST than AoE, and much of building your feral talent tree is balancing that slider of how good at ST do you want to be and for how much AoE tradeoff. At the end of the day, either path gets you Apex.

I appreciate the insight, Raijah! My feral is mostly a pvp toon for me, so it sounds like veinripper might be the stronger choice for that.

even a few months old this was a helpful thread.