I’m on these forums constantly and I’ve never seen the statistics.
You’re only on these forums to complain. How is asking for data trolling when your content isn’t.
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Did you read that on a piece of toilet paper or something? And not understand it?
Of course correlation does not always equal causation. But when you’re talking about something that is obviously the result of something else, then it is.
E.G. The ground is wet after it rains. This is caused by rain. You don’t need a “citation” to know that it is true.
Similarly, the % of a people finishing a dungeon in time is a function of the difficulty of the dungeon. This is a simple and very easy to understand concept. Posting pithy sayings you heard somewhere in a failed attempt to sound smart doesn’t change that.
Asking for data when you don’t care what the data says is trolling because your goal is just to waste the other person’s time searching the internet for data you don’t care about and will ignore anyway. One of the oldest arguing tricks on the internet.
Wow, I jump in with something factual and you are already all over me, so sad. You must have some serious problems.
Or how about the fact that all the available content that provides high level gear this xpac means people don’t NEED to do mythic? What I said is valid, what you said is the poop you are wiping with said TP.
What’s that got to do with the percentage of runs that finish within the timer? Absolutely nothing. Since the people who aren’t doing mythic+ are not completing the runs with or without the timer. But there is data from raiderio on the percentage of runs that finish within the timer.
What I said is valid
Nope.
The % of dungeons that finish within the timer is obviously and logically a function of dungeon difficulty. Your quote “correlation does not equal causation” is a statistical rule meant to remind people that the relationship between and 2 random statistics is not necessarily causal even if they are correlated.
It simply doesn’t apply to situations where 1 thing is logically the cause of another thing. You don’t understand the usage of the quote, you tried to make yourself sound smart but you failed. Do better next time.
Now, if you had applied that “correlation does not equal causation” to the total number of M+ runs done, then you might have a point. Since the total participation could be a function of many things, including but not limited to total subscriber numbers, difficulty, rewards, etc.
But talking about how many completed runs finish within the timer is absolutely a function of dungeon difficulty, and those numbers are significantly down from Legion at low keys. As in down by more than half.
You waste your own time constantly whining instead of improving; how could citing actual facts be a waste compared to your usual forum activity?
But the actual trolling is the “I have data but I won’t show it to you” that you constantly do.
Perhaps you should be more clear what “completion rate” is supposed to mean then. It could also indicate something like the amount of characters that have even done said dungeon at said key level. That being said, what I said still stands. Doesn’t mean the dungeons are harder. You have many more factors in play here such as how long the timers are, classes do not play the same, mobs are not the same (and this also does NOT mean harder - it just means different). There are too many factors to make such a large statement as “low level M+ is more difficult in BFA than it was in legion.” And time consuming does NOT mean difficult. Words matter. I believe it’s your perception which to you is reality, but it’s not actually a statement you can really prove given all the factors that come into play to make something actually harder.
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You know you can’t post links in these forums right?
drivegooglecom/file/d/1OGleIM5jMGDjIZXL6ax0i9X0Z4QQTPIU/view
All of these are literally other ways of saying “the dungeons are harder”.
Sorry, I can’t help those that can’t read. I’m not an English teacher.
It absolutely does, when the major challenge is racing against a timer.
If you make a dungeon take longer and change nothing else, then you are literally making it harder to achieve the goal of completing the dungeon within the timer. It’s really very simple.
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lol you are funny
M0 is harder now than in Legion, because the trash has more mechanics and dungeons are tightly packed. The mechanics without any affixes are much less forgiving than Legion. This is the main reason “low level mythics are harder now”.
You’re on here so often pushing your same point for months. Usually because “tyrannical/fortified has ruined low M+” according to you. And you’re always looking for an argument that you can’t walk away from. Always have to have the last say too, yet you call others trolls for having a difference of opinion. Pretty rich.
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No, the main reason is the existence of tyrannical and fortified. Even if you play perfectly, you still have 20% more hitpoints to burn through than you did in legion. Which is why 3 chesting dungeons is very rare in BFA.
What you are saying is also true. The mechanics are harder. But that’s not the main reason it’s harder to time keys. It’s that you have less margin for error when the dungeon has 20% more HP. It’s the difference between 1 chest and 2 chest, or making vs not making the timer in many cases.
Even at very high levels of play where players are playing basically perfectly, fortified is significantly harder to time than tyrannical because fortified has more DPS required than Tyrannical does.
I’m not calling him a troll for having a difference of opinion. I’m calling him a troll because he can’t post twice in a thread without attacking me personally (calling me entitled, saying I can’t time keys, etc. Look at his posts).
It has ruined low M+ for the people that low M+ was (and still should be) aimed at.
All the “git gud” trolls don’t run low M+. They are doing +10 and higher, so why do they care how hard it is at +2 or +3?
As I said, it’s a mistake to aim that level of content at players who won’t ever do it. It should be aimed at the players who would do it (i.e. players who probably aren’t good enough to time +9 keys but would still like to run dungeons more than once a week).
Many such players enjoyed M+ in legion. They probably never did a +15 key but they enjoyed doing low M+. The system was also beneficial for the larger player base as a whole too. There was a far larger availability of +10 keys in Legion because leveling a key to +10 was far less challenging than it is in BFA.
So far more people than just the lowest play skill have been impacted by the changes. It’s now far harder for capable people to find +10 keys to run because the difficulty of leveling a key to +10 in the first place has made meta classes and raiderio score far more important than it ever was in legion. So it’s also impacted the people who just ran 1 a week for a cache significantly. It’s impacted lower skilled players who just wanted a chill place to grind AP and loot.
The only people it hasn’t really impacted are the people who were already pushing higher than +10/+15 in legion and are comparatively much more skilled than the general player base. And those are the kinds of people who come into threads like these and say the system’s fine because their gameplay hasn’t been impacted at all, with very little consideration for anyone else.
It’s the equivalent of if Blizzard just removed normal mode raiding, and a bunch of mythic raiders came in here and said it’s fine, git gud. That’s why it’s trolling.
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And again I’ll ask, why are such players concerned about timing the dungeon at all, rather than completing it?
You keep saying this without any empirical information.
Health values and time to kill (ttk) are relative. How high is ttk in dungeons relative to Legion dungeons at the same point in the expansion?
The modifier means nothing because it’s a relative measure against content that never had the old Turn and Fort. All that matters is ttk in a Legion 5 vs ttk in a BfA 5.
Regardless, even if it is harder (it’s nooooooooot) that just means people can rise to the occasion and learn to do better DPS and healing prior to more mechanics being introduced by further modifiers. The real issue isn’t the keystones but that most people who play the game aren’t good at it.
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Except that we already know that this isn’t true. Blizzard has explicitly said that they worked out long ago that people don’t “rise to the occasion”.
Everyone has a different level of skill cap. Some people just don’t have the ability to be as good at gaming as others. My opinion (and the opinion of the OP in this thread) is that there’s no reason why an infinitely scaling difficulty system shouldn’t start low enough in difficulty to accommodate such people. Your opinion is apparently that those people can just suck it.
Yeah, the company that makes no effort to teach anybody how to play and leaves it entirely to third party sites and Discords definitely knows how to use the data they have on dungeon completion. I have complete faith.
The bar is so incredibly low that it really comes down to people learning to play better at that point. The game already has content that doesn’t require you to ever improve to do it in WQs and world bosses, LFR, and the queueable dungeon content.