I have to agree here, facing and LOS issues make it very difficult to do anything as a caster with someone dancing in and out of you or hugging pillars on big casts. At the very least they should make it so that it’s only the beginning of the cast that matters and not the end of the cast.
But that’s an aside to most of the conversation here.
Arena is a complete wizard fest (and rogues).
They tried complexity for casual content back in Cata. It didn’t end well. Granted, some players wouldn’t mind a little more complexity, but it seems that the majority just… don’t.
I do not mind warfronts. At least we get transmog. Island expeditions is still tedious with no weekly reward 1 token per queue is not enough. It needs to be setup as warfronts/incursions. RNG on items need to be addressed.
Casual content is always going to be inherently boring because it’s designed to be easy. The moment Blizzard tries to add “stakes” as you suggest, these forums will be full of people complaining it’s too hard. The reaction to the first day of the Mage Tower challenge last expansion was hilarious. Most casual players weren’t even able to handle silver proving grounds.
I wonder if I can get silver healer as a prot warrior. ![:thinking:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/thinking.png?v=6" ":thinking:")
I guess you are forgetting all the whinny posts from the casuals who couldn’t beat it and instead of just sucking it up and practice they came here and complained and stopped doing it.
Also, that poster gave a great example. Almost any LFR that actually required you to do a mechanic had people running to the forums saying it is over tuned and needs to be nefed etc. All after 1 week. Lots of bosses got nerfed to where they made LFR 100% tourist mode with no mechanics but changed the loot to be different from the other difficulties. Of course then people complained so it goes to prove the point of people wanting to do little to no work but have good rewards for it.
This is actually subjective. I think the IEs are quite fun and if you have buddies do Mythic or if you love pvp get a couple of friends and queue for IE pvp. But the game doesn’t revolve around you. Boring to you doesn’t mean it is boring to others.
But they tried to do this in cata and it did not work. I loved the cata dungeons at launch because they actually required some thought. Who do you think it was that caused the nerf bat to swing? Some people refuse to adapt to the game so blizzard has to adapt to these people, case in point trying to do a shrine of storms in normal is like pulling teeth, i died 3 times as a tank because people lack situational awareness or don’t know how to interrupt. Even after pointing out that mending tide and tempest needed to be interrupted, people still refused to help me get them. The healer and hunter both refused to move out of tempest when it eventually went off. This lack of situational awareness is mind boggling and the only reason we finished the run was because the hunter left and we got someone who had a clue. I have also ran into these situations in both heroic and mythic dungeons.
So what i am saying is it does not matter if they add solo content, the same people that can’t grab an interrupt would be the same people here asking for nerfs.
So what? Can’t please everyone and buying a game doesn’t guarantee you can complete it.
Couldn’t we just … ignore those people? 
This is the end result of basically everyone when they want a game to work in a way they think is best.
“The other people are wrong and we should ignore them”
Ultimately that is what happens with anything, just depends on which side you fall.
It’s the difference between “A game should be played” and “a game should be won.”
I guess I should have said “the devs” instead of “we”, because I really meant, couldn’t the devs, if they decided to create something marginally challenging like the example theoretical content, simply choose to ignore the complaints of their lowest-common-denominator players in one area of their game and leave it as-is regardless of forum outcry?
But yeah, obviously there’s bias involved. Currently I’m the group of players being ignored. I want that to change. It’s all stones in all glass houses all the time around GD tbh.
No, and that’s why people who couldn’t play at least decently never ever screamed for nerfs to it.
/s
Of course they could ignore them. Every implementation of anything ignores the people who don’t like it.
And if it gets changed due to feedback then a different segment is ignored in favor of those who complained.
Always going in circles.
Right. Which is why “people might complain” is a silly argument against something.
It’s the flipside of “they never listen to feedback”
Btw I agree with you.
Sure. But if you create casual content, what casual group do you listen to?
I’m all for another mage tower, or other solo content that is actually challenging. What I’m more worried about is what you do with it to make it worth doing more than once? I don’t think gear is a great idea, and cosmetics/pets/mounts then turn it into a grind.
People will always complain, no matter what… it’s an MMOrpg filled with lots of egos/personalities/characters across the globe. The thing I find issue with is Blizzard’s WoW team pushing the way of thinking that they want to please a lot of people. That’s impossible. I get the reasoning and perhaps the higher ups want them to do that BUT that is something that hurts the quality of a product, this being WoW.
Do any of you have data that suggests the majority of “casual” players complained about MT? Or are you stating anecdotal (and likely filled with confirmation bias) evidence as fact? I’d bet that plenty of players who would be considered “casual” by many completed MT challenges
Ironically Blizz never even did nerf MT and everything turned out fine 
I’d argue that there is a certain level of common sense necessary when handling complaints
“We don’t want our abilities on the GCD because it feels clunky and unsatisfying” is obviously a valid complaint
“I want this content that’s supposed to be challenging nerfed so I can faceroll it” is obviously not a valid complaint
And I don’t think that’s subjective at all, perhaps those calling for nerfs to such content might think so due to emotional investment but objectively we can see that things like heavily pruning back every class is detrimental (I believe the game should have both complex and simple classes/specs available, objectively that just makes sense too) and objectively we can see that calling for nerfs on content designed to be hard (e.g. MT) is nonsensical
A big problem these days is that no common sense is used and any complaint is potentially seen as a valid complaint when that simply isn’t the case
It’s not whether or not it can be considered casual content, it’s that the content isn’t designed to be consumed casually. Blizz implementing systems to allow more casual people to engage with it doesn’t equate to it being designed as content that’s challenging and rewarding for casual players. Others who have argued that it can be considered casual content have already admitted that pugging it (what makes it accessible to casuals in the first place) isn’t necessarily satisfying or rewarding (which, pugging in general has a reputation of being unsatisfying) and is often used as a means to gear and that’s about it
As opposed to something like say MT, which is both challenging and satisfying content that is also designed in a way that makes it inherently accessible to more casual players. And that’s the whole point of this thread, wanting more stuff that’s designed from the ground up to be challenging and rewarding but also accessible to those with more irregular play windows
That would be me, and yup…maybe try reading?
So you agree with me? Just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative?
I honestly don’t understand half the peeps in this thread, they seem awfully confused and I think the use of the term “casual” is what’s sparked the rabid fantacism
We’d literally just like to see more content like MT that’s accessible at its core and challenging. People are stuck trying to argue the semantics of “casual” and whether or not they engage with content like the MT (which nobody can arbitrarily decide that they don’t at all, that’s just false) while also arguing that MT was great…like wut?