I don’t think the mage tower is considered casual content. Most people took 50+ attempts to complete it, depending on spec obviously. Casual content from Legion would be the class hall campaign or the class mount quests.
People also complain daily here that Mythic 0 dungeons are too hard, so M+ can’t possibly be considered casual content.
What a baseless insult.
The thing you have to keep in mind is that Casual is a loaded term around these parts. While we normally think of Casual as “someone who does not have much time”, the actual definition is “not serious or careful in attitude; only partly interested”.
Truly casual players definitely suffer from a lack of skill and knowledge, as they simply don’t care enough about the game to understand it more deeply, so, I’d defiitely not class Mage Tower as casual content, specially not at release. It might have gotten close to being casual content once everyone was one tier ahead of it in iLvl, but at release it required one to really know the game deeply.
MT was great, and I’d love to see it return too, but it can’t really be compared to Warfronts or Expeditions. Mage Tower was a challenge, Warfronts and Expeditions are crap you need to get done before you go back to doing what you actually want to be doing. And the matchmaking nature of them also means you can’t make them difficult - if random groups start failing, people will either stop entering random groups (creating long queues) or just have a terrible time in general, both terrible outcomes.
Is it though? Warfronts require nothing of anyone. You don’t passively win, but a single player can carry a group.
Islands on heroic and normal are free. Heroic dungeons are free. Lfr (at least for a long time) was free and they implemented a heroic difficulty for Siege and KR so people could complete a quest, because the 0 difficulty had too many mechanics (apparently).
I disagree with using casual as a stand in for no tries. This game stopped being an RPG a long time ago, but some still cling to a time when it was and refuse to play the combat systems to any level of skill.
100% agree blizzard needs to have meaningful world content with fun rewards such as mount or cool transmog etc…the raids are for the most part fantastic and the dungeons for the most part are very well done but they need more things to do in the world besides world quest an invasions.
Legion had the class order hall campaign, class mounts, artifact weapon scenarios etc…why didnt they do stuff like this bfa
The number of attempts is irrelevant, MT was out for months. “Casual content” is literally just content that doesn’t require large commitments of time and that can be completed on a person’s own terms. Both MT and M+ fall into that category. Progression raiding does not because of the commitment to a raid schedule and often hours of play on raid nights
People complain about all sorts here, doesn’t really mean much
Casual
noun
^ That’s what a casual is, somebody who’s time for play is irregular and who thus can’t commit to schedules (raiding, for example) or commit the consistent time to the game often required to push to high levels of competitive play (high rated PvP, for example)
Yes, it is.
Nailed it.
Heroic raid pugs are going all the time. Is Heroic raiding also casual content? You can literally go join a group or start a group any time you want.
Tbh if the only thing casuals lack is time then even Mythic raiding is Casual now, just have to do one boss per month
I agree. I killed Mythic champions last week on my alt DK in a pug. Took 15 min and we didn’t use voice. So Mythic raiding must be casual content as well according to some in this thread.
No because
If you sign up to that Heroic raid the expectation is that you’ll follow through to its completion. That means potentially spending hours on it. Sure you could leave early if you have to but that’s not something to be encouraged and potentially screws over a bunch of other people. A M+ run in comparison isn’t really liable to last for hours, now is it?
MT on the other hand is solo so like I said, the perfect example of casual content
Being able to join in on something doesn’t make it casual, but I suspect you’re now being intentionally obtuse due to a lack of any actual argument 
What in the world are you talking about? When was the last time you did a heroic pug? People leave after every boss and people join in on a boss they need then bounce after. ???
No it isn’t. The expectation is that you’re there for a single boss and if you’re a cynical raid leader, that you’re there until the first wipe.
I realise that you play at a high level, but for a lot of people pugging something like (H) G’Huun is far from a straightforward affair. Heck, bosses like Vectis can be rough
I personally don’t like to drop out if I can help it, but do realise that others don’t share that view
I was talking from a design standpoint. What you’re referring to is a symptom of the community
The whole point of this thread is content designed for casuals. As a relatively casual player I personally find pugging raids to often be a pretty sizeable waste of time, as opposed to something like MT where I have a set goal and can work towards it at my own pace without having to feel a sense of commitment or having to deal with exactly what you just described
Joining a pug to down the first boss then wipe on the second to then have people leave to then replace them to then wipe on the second boss a couple of times to then have people leave etc. is so very clearly not content designed to sate the casual playerbase
This completely contradicts what you said earlier.
You could pug H G’huun. It might take a few groups throughout multiple weeks. But if you have maybe an hour a night to play you could definitely get him down. This by your own definition is casual content.
In WoW-land, “casual content” has to be made for the lowest common denominator.
I’m not advocating for people leaving on wipes (unless it was a 90% wipe and the person who blew up the raid isn’t booted). But I will say when I played more casually (from a scheduling standpoint not putzed around the ah until I decided to find a carry like some), I would find an open hour in my work schedule and try to find a raid at or near the boss I needed, even if I had to reclear a boss I didn’t need. Once I had my 2 chances at what I wanted (heroic quality tier gloves) I’d bounce. No one expects you to full clear. I’d do the raid split over the week based on my availability then do mythic plus with a friend (2627 io) until I had to go to bed.
And I drive a truck for a living, my hours are all over the place. I still managed to find the time to complete my goals and do what I enjoyed.
Is that really true? I’ve never actually seen a warfront where at least a majority of players weren’t actively trying to win. Maybe not using the optimal fastest strategies but at least beating up some enemy troops and spending their resources on something.
I think the reason warfronts are “unloseable” is that there actually is a skill floor that only a few players fall below (not mage tower level necessarily, but some level of competence), and the odds of getting 10+ egregiously bad players or actual AFKs in the same warfront group are remote.
The reason Nazgrim, specifically, had to be nerfed repeatedly is that he had mechanics where the entire raid would be punished for one person screwing up, and that’s bad for LFR because it’s impossible to avoid having those people placed into your group and difficult to get rid of them consistently. And even when it does eventually work “wipe, kick trolls, repeat” is a negative play experience for most players involved.
Pre nerf LFR Nazgrim had 2 mechanics. Don’t attack during defensive stance, and swap to adds when they come out. I feel like that isn’t too much to ask of players, but Blizzard thought it was far too difficult.
Hmm, it doesn’t really though. Take my ‘shining’ example, for instance. I could invest time into MT when I had the chance and over time learn the fight. Everything was on me and my performance, that’s not the case for raids. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how well you know the fight or play, the rest of your group just can’t complete it. Yes there are “casual” players that are just “bad”, but that doesn’t equate to all casuals being “bad”
That isn’t true though it isn’t linear progression like MT, every pug is different. Perhaps you get lucky and eventually get into a competent or overgeared pug and manage to down him, perhaps you never do
To that end I can concede that M+ isn’t really designed as casual content either
I’m honestly glad that you manage that and find your enjoyment that way, but we’re veering dangerously off track here
It isn’t content that’s designed to be consumed in that fashion and pugging can often be a rather tasteless and negative experience because of the way the community treats it
This thread is about Blizz actually designing more content for casual players that’s challenging. I really fail to see how that’s a bad thing? More MTs is unacceptable?