I’ll say the same thing that I said about Nourish in the PTR thread about the new Nourish talent for resto druids: The only way people are going to ever pick Nourish is if it has a lowered cast time somehow. And lo and behold, they actually listened and put that in, as the second talent you spec into for Nourish (not that it necessarily makes Nourish worth specing into, but at least it’s a potential option now). The same goes for Holy Light. People have spoken about all kinds of things in this thread, but if you did the same for Holy Light and brought the cast time down somehow, that would be the single fix caster paladins would need and everyone would be mostly happy then. Healers just simply cannot afford to cast something that long in this season’s mythic+. There simply are too many things you have to move out of.
Reduce the cast time of Holy Light, and you’ve fixed the playstyle.
I 100% agree, my thoughts of Caster Paladin is to being mid ranged, close enough to the action for CC and LoD, but not having to sit right into melee.
With the recent introduction of Evoker, on their huge success of being mid ranged, Caster Paladin most definitely could fit into this role hovering around 15 yards for LoD range.
I think 15 Yards is a sweet spot, literally less then 1 second to get into range for Blinding Light, HoJ, SotR, but could step back.
Literally just needs a few tweaks and adjustments.
Like I mentioned previously,
Both builds can flourish, I enjoy classes that have multiple ways to perform and cater to players, just caster Paladin needs a few adjustments.
I play a caster hpal healer, I think that a few changes are what we need—stuff light Beacon of the Lightbringer, Denounce, and ideally Holy Radiance (not necessarily named Holy Radiance if the devs have other plans for that spell name in the next expansion).
Paladins definitely needed more design and test time during Beta than they were actually given, but if the devs actually make fixes and improvements mid-expansion, they can make up for that.
I’d personally rather them be gated behind instant cast melee abilities than long casts that land like a wet noodle. With the way current damage profiles are, standing still and casting long casted spells wont cut the mustard. What do you want the play style to be honestly? Just do your paper round, delivering your Holy Light or Flash of Light to each party member before the next damage event occurs and hope that will cut it.
For them to bring back the old school of caster Holy Pally in today’s game, the spec would need to be redesigned from the ground up and a lot more depth added because just casting Holy Light or Flash of Light won’t be enough.
I find it funny the line about “go back to Ret bro”. Of course people who like melee healing must be Ret players in disguise. Has it occurred to you that perhaps people like the challenge that a melee healer offers and standing at 40 yards spamming casted spells would be boring AF.
Of the other caster healers, there’s a lot more going on than just spamming single target healing spells, in a world where caster Holy pally came back, you’d have to assume the same.
Sorry for the late reply, halfway into the work week now lol.
True, and I won’t pretend that you’re wrong here. The premise of this thread though is that caster is holding back melee. It can very easily be looked at from the angle of melee holding back caster. Seems that both statements are correct.
I think all healers should feel god-tier through competent design.
Well I’m sorry for being a jerk then. It rustles my jimmies when people arrogantly declare that my favorite spec should be removed from the game
I just roll my eyes when people think caster paladin is standing at max range lol. Not even worth the time to argue with. I will entertain this one though:
Spamming IoL FoL with BoV was fine in m+ in Legion, why would it not be fine now, other than the obvious tuning issues. I don’t think the spec needs to be redesigned from the ground up to competitive, but yeah, in its current state it feels pretty underwhelming.
I don’t even care if I have to stand near the melee range. I just want my spec to be able to function on my healing kit alone. I am a healer after all. Doing damage as a melee is actually kind of fun and fits the flavor of the class itself. But when things go south I should be able to stop dpsing, to spam throughput to stabilize my group and then go back to dpsing at my convenience. As a healer my healing gameplay loop should be, well, a loop. But it doesn’t loop its segmented by using globals to do 0 healing and stack combo points.
Well with the new datamined Ret changes for 10.0.7, they getting insane range on most skills, if anything it shows Caster Holy Paladin could still be in the works of being fleshed out.
Particularly, Jurisdiction Templar’s talent making HoJ Ranged!, they also getting instant casts Flash of Light too.
Hammer of Justice 25 yd range be great for holy.
Flash of Light casts instantly, its healing done is increased by 50%, but it now has a 6 sec cooldown. Be insane on Holy if it had two charges, could be our version of Reversion or Riptide a smaller mobile heal outside of using holy power.
I love that you are having fun with it, but SBG and COS are impossible to not time. People time 20 SBG with 2 prot paladins and no healers. I noticed you’ve only managed a 16 Algethar, which you’d probably have already timed at a higher key level with your gear if you played instant cast.
My point isn’t that you shouldn’t be able to play how you want, but you would still be able to massively outgear content and spam FOL and finish a 19 SBG even if Blizz removed Tower of Radiance and sorted out whatever is going on at the bottom right of the Holy tree.
I’d also recommend looking into some mouse over macros for your healing, that way you don’t need to click people before healing them. You can keep the enemy targeted, allowing you to do more DPS and help your group. You were also dropping consecration on yourself instead of in melee where it could heal the tank and melee as well as do some dps. You also didn’t stun or kick much, which isn’t so important in SBG when you have melee kicking spiders, but would be needed in that Algethar especially on packs before last boss.
and that’s why it works xD, no macros, no addons indicators, + half baked. lol. I’ve raided hardcore but then i took my guild’s master suggestion from panda land not to use dbm and actually play with sound to enjoy the game more, that was 8 years or so ago. I’ve gotten too used to the game i stopped using any when i returned in this expac. then blizz decided “you can craft your own stats” and took advantage to meme and experiments. If i had ways of improving the gear, i would do it, not that i over geared the dungeon itself, it is just theres means to atain higher gear without actually doing the dungeon itself. The build works fine in nok 17 i havnt do higher since all this time, i’ve been pugging. no premade, just random folks. LOL , i kinda stopped doing higher lvl + when i reached 2400, i just don’t have any reason, just 1 421 is enough and hope the chaos gods of rng bless me with good rolls to coming weeks.
that vid is just proof of concept, old ways of healing. I used to be that meta guy back in the day that “everyone should follow what blizz intended to do and how it deisgn,” fall in line type of person," but it doesn’t always workout, it just some class are just op at certain point of the game. u are locked in unending cycle of nerfs/buffing/redesigning every patch. blizz don’t playtest their games, if they playtest it, they pick the best of the best but not your mommy or your sist and aunty who know nothing about the meta.
this is critical mistake and as a veteran i would not recommend this to new players. It will make them lazy and can be costly (that one critical moment when u shouldn’t have cancel a cast or instantly waste that wod or shock). healbot created way too many bad healers back in bc and wrath.
that was the obvious, lol. with my current build and key bind " ` " ← it is in seraphim which should be a pummel, i switch em both sometimes but strategically 4 people should be able to get that job done. one thing that i stop doing was having too many active skills and keys/ bloat happening at once, but it is a choice; at some point players will be able to learn how to just specialize in certain design build/ideas and just focus around it. (the less key you have the more time u’ll not be looking at action bar and just dancing with the fight, but thats bdo lol not wow).
This seems like a massive deviation from the spirit of the thread. If you don’t care about how the spec plays and admit you could finish SBG handicapped and overgeared with any old healing spells then why would you care if Blizz made the class tree less caster focused? Doesn’t seem like it would impact you in any way.
Meanwhile the rest of us would get some actual choices in our nodes if Blizz added better support for instant cast paladin. (The playstyle 99% players are choosing according to Subcreation)
well it did impacted me, melee paladin was newer concept in “wow” but it was an old lore in “warcraft” think of it like omni knight from dota. u charge in battle and heals, that’s what blizz is trying to do. I suggest they just put 4 spec in paladin 2 healings, 1 dps and 1 tank, it ridiculous but right now it is just Frankenstein design. caster paladin theme changed when monk was explored more in panda land and they nerfed judgement holy power regeneration.
also u used to have 7 instant cast abilities back in wrath, base on the number of your holy power. i used to spam word of glory at cost of 2 instead of 3 and spam radiance(light of dawn) with 1 holy power. it was good design back then where u can choose which and how powerful skill u would use.
melee is always in a disadvantage environment, u have less space to navigate, u have high risk of getting cleave, and most likely to spread debuffs with little time to react. now Pallies have to endure all those vs other healers in the game.
it worked pretty well, even with the damage, shockadin was the theme back then, we have word of glory doing damage to a target, and a casting searing light ability(only added b/c hpal can’t solo level up content)
, i kinda stopped doing higher lvl + when i reached 2400, i just don’t have any reason, just 1 421 is enough and hope the chaos gods of rng bless me with good rolls to coming weeks.