Perhaps classic + could simply be the next expansion after bfa? All of the elements that blizzard is now realizing we love about vanilla could be poured into the next expansion and release in August 2022-23. I’d be totally into that.
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Really? I still revel with the few people I’m in contact with about our Rags and Nef kills and how we all worked together collecting the stuff for our Scarab Lord.
I assume, though, there was something special about your Rag and Nef kills?
Something went wrong and someone saved it, someone did something awesome, it was the first time after a lot of effort, etc, it wasn’t just “we did what was expected of us”.
I don’t these arguments work against Classic+. First Classic+ is meant to fix some of the issues with Classic. PvP is pretty much a joke against Naxx geared players, and there is no real progression aside from an extremely grinding ranking system that provides armor that will still get you deleted for not raiding.
Secondly, not everyone is going to get to Naxx at all. Naxx is not the “end of the game” so to speak. People will start to leave when they realize the time investment isn’t paying off for them, or they’ve seen all they want to see.
Classic+ fixes both of these issues by adding in features to fix some of these mistakes, and also gives players that “next thing” that is actually worth reaching for.
Yeah, they were ours.
I think you’re missing the whole “epic feel” of Vanilla. It’s not just “Rock up, kill the boss, walk away”. There’s a whole long process of leveling, then gearing, then progressing tier after tier that makes those end bosses feel personally gratifying.
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No, I agree with that, I was actually in the middle of editing something along those lines into my post 
The “rock up, kill the boss, walk away” pattern I feel is attributable at least in part to the bosses being designed to be killed. It’s like a carnival ride; you know what the ending is, so you don’t look forward to it. Vanilla bosses, because they weren’t designed to be beaten by everyone, had uncertainty in them. When you beat them, you knew it was because you earned it, there was a feeling of accomplishment, not merely a feeling of “well, I showed up, here’s my boss kill”.
Top-end Mythic raiding in retail requires a ton of wipes on them to progress, but a lot of that is raid design based differences that are beyond the scope of what I’m trying to talk about right now, and the reasons why they are unsatisfying (IMO) are also beyond this particular scope.
It wasn’t just difficulty though. It was the journey. We knew that every step, what we did brought us one step closer to killing Ragnaros, or Nefarion, even if those steps were “Complete the Jailbreak attunement” or “Learn first aid”.
oh egads the first aid quests in theramore.
/runs screaming from building
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Exactly. It’s about more than just difficulty (particularly about more than mechanical difficulty), it’s about the world surrounding the boss and the entire ecosystem involved in that reward structure.
Progressing actually felt like progress in Vanilla, and there’s a lot of reasons why that’s different from Retail, but IMO one big reason was that success was not assumed.
It’s something that I use to good effect when running TTRPGs (like D&D) as well. If you tell the players straight-up that they can’t die/can’t fail (as some narrative games do), the game loses tension. Whether or not they actually ever fail, the fact that players in games I run know that they CAN fail, and I will let them fail if they deserve to, increases the tension and increases the mental reward for success thereby.
Even if they never once fail, knowing that it’s possible and that the designer isn’t going to help them if they do fail, makes success feel better.
THIS! In retrospect the “difficulty” was nothing compared to today’s mythics. However, 15 years ago most of us formed memories we will always cherish.
Everyone has all different kinds of memories, friendships made, IRL bonds forged… back when WoW was a real RPG.
That is why we are so passionate about protecting our “museum piece” that blizzard is finally giving us.
I will be happily reliving the journey.
So I make NO apologies for defending #nochanges. 
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You mostly argued against Classic+ which I think most people know is unlikely. I would think it would be even cheaper to redo TBC and WotLK once Classic is running, and that seems like the natural progression. You get nostalgia seekers along with those that liked how the game played at that particular point in WoW’s development. I’d think its easy money and a way to keep people who have played WoW in the past coming back and checking out the current game. I can’t see why the Classic team they hired and have working for them now wouldn’t be retained for this. It makes too much sense.
If, if, if they ever tried a Classic+ it would be a long way down the road. Might as well work off stuff already in the game and unfinished like the centaur and thief guild rep’s or even do WotLK + Kharazn vanilla style. That would complete the story and the assets are there. I seriously doubt this will ever happen, but that would offer more than enough for casual players as well as raiders.