Cap respec costs at 10g

WoW Classic WoW Classic General Discussion
466

A lot of people in this thread don’t understand.

I’m a Mage main. My most powerful raid spec, requires me to go hybrid Arcane-Frost, but I lose ALL of my Frost survivability spells that are essential to Mages in WPVP and farming, and anything. Such as Ice barrier, Ice block, etc. How about you try going out into the world to farm materials, run dungeons, etc without any of your survival spells?

So, Mages need to re-spec after a raid, back into their “viable” world/PVP specs. So we can AoE, PVP, farm, do dungeons.

This costs Mages 100g every week. Unless we just stay as raid spec, and do nothing for the week.

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467

While your statement is true. If we didn’t see in hindsight exactly what those changes did to the game and this community we wouldn’t even have Classic right now.
What are they left with on retail? A souless single player mmo. Whoever wants that already has it and classic is not it.

Really? Yea what sequel to Mario are we on? Zelda? CoD? Street fighter? Mortal Combat? The list goes on.
No. Not reskins of the first game. Just reskins of proven popular games.

Wow succeeded in capturing those players who couldn’t handle the punishing mechanics of other mmo’s. That’s what wow did.
Wow added questing to the level experience to trick players into believing they weren’t just grinding mobs to level. Then you find out well theres only really a few different types of quests. A few epicly designed quests and the rest are just killing, collecting, or killing to collect. Aka. Grinding mobs.

Not complaining about the game. It is what it is. I play or I spend time in my shop. My choice. I adjust to what I don’t like and do the things I want to.
What im saying is wow is already casual friendly. What we have can all be overcome with player innovation and ingenuity.
If blizz opens this change door. It’s over. May as well call it bfa because it sure won’t be anything close to authentic.
You think P2 whining was something. Let one of these changes in and this forum will light up with even more requests.
For what? The game to be changed and die even faster? Nah dawg. Enjoy what we got. It’s almost over as is. Hell the crying already started.

Bad game design from who’s perspective? There were requests in Vanilla about hardcore servers with a lot of those…what did you call them? Oh yes. Bad designs.

There’s still a segment of this player base to this day who would love looting players, gear that actually wears out and has to be replaced, completely open world pvp,(instead of the nice safe space factions that gave players something to belong to and always have backup in the world) stat loss on death, and a plethora of other “bad designs”(as you put it).
Know what those mechanics all have in common? They don’t hold your hand. So what you call bad design. Some of us think it’s good impactful engaging design. Just like we think Classic’s design is fine the way it is.
Shadowlands is coming with your QoL level 60 experience. Be patient and leave classic alone.

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468

It is a shame you don’t make any attempt to understand what I write. You just read one line and begin to argue.

You claim that, “people will always take the path of least resistance”, but the reality is, “people will take the path of most fun which still allows them to accomplish their goals in a reasonable amount of time”.

Farming gold is not fun, but what we get from farming gold is fun. I remember listening to this mage talk about all the things he had farmed and how much gold-per-hour he was getting. He said the best gold per hour he had found was farming Zul’Farrak, but that it was “killing his soul” from boredom.

Everything we do in WoW is a form of work, but some work is enjoyable, while other work is drudgery. Some people would rather farm less gold-per-hour in ways that are more fun. And some people would rather farm honor in WSG than in AV, even if it is less efficient.

Or in simple terms, many people would rather spend twice as much time doing work that is more enjoyable.

As you said, everything in WoW is technically a waste of time, but we don’t see it as a waste of time, otherwise we couldn’t do it. The perception of something being a waste of the time is the difference between work and drudgery.

You keep talking about how this game takes “effort”. Fine, but some effort is more fun and/or rewarding than others. And spending gold on skills feels different than spending gold on a mount which feels different than spending gold on consumables which feels different than spending gold on respecs.

I leveled a warlock recently, I don’t know how much gold I spent training abilities that I’ll never use. Why do I bother? Because I like to learn everything. And even though it is a waste of time, it doesn’t feel like a waste of time.

Likewise my main is an enchanter, and enchanters will spend hundreds of gold buying recipes they’ll never use, after spending hundreds of gold to level a profession and make the enchanting rods, so that they can enchant their own gear, even though it would have been far cheaper to just have someone else do it.

I agree that the game should take effort. The point I was trying to make is, people will only make the effort if they don’t perceive it as a waste of time. And the reason I mentioned dual-spec for 1000g, is because a lot of people who would have never spent anywhere close to 1000g in respecs, would gladly put out the effort to farm the gold to buy dual-spec, for the same reason enchanters spend hundreds of gold on recipes they don’t need and will never make any profit off of.

If anything, Vanilla needs more of that kind of effort. And if you’re trying to encourage people to put more effort into the game, the 50g respec is counterproductive. Expensive respecs don’t cause people to farm more gold for respecs, it merely stops them from respecing.

For instance, which would remove more gold from the in-game economy, raising the respec cost to 1000g, or adding dual-spec for 1000g?

It would be dual-spec by a million miles. And if you reduced respec costs, people would spend more gold on respecs, because people would respec more often.

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Think about it this way - some things in the game will feel like a waste of time to you. Many of us don’t feel that way. We will fight any game changes intended to simply accommodate your or anyone else’s whim. We wanted a Vanilla revival as close to the original game as possible, warts and all. Evidently you want to remove a wart. No thanks.

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The #nochangers oppose all changes without thinking. They assume everything vanilla is good, and anything not vanilla is bad. But when you ask them to explain why, they are utterly clueless.

I asked several times in this thread why 50g respecs were a good thing. The #nochangers claim that it removes gold from the in-game economy, and requires more “effort”(IE time farming gold). But it isn’t true, expensive respecs just stop people from respecing.

The truth is #nochangers have no reason to believe 50g respecs make the game better than 25g respecs, 10g respecs, or 1000g respecs. They cannot make a coherent argument because they prefer not to think.

471

When you’ve play a board game, say Monopoly, do you complain about the rules? WoW Classic is the same - an old game many of us still enjoy. Many of us don’t want you or anyone else mucking with the rules. If we seem recalcitrant and stubborn to you about this - that’s because we are. We really have zero interest in your game re-design ideas.

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You ever looked up some of the alternative rulesets for monopoly? Base monopoly is pretty terrible.

I play board games with alternative rulesets all the time, but the key is to change as little as possible, and the changes need to be as simple as possible. You don’t want anything that is confusing, and you want things that are clearly an improvement.

Reducing respec costs from 50g to 10g isn’t really a “game redesign”, and there are literally no downsides.

473

lalalalalalala - fingers in my ears - I don’t care what you think. Many other’s don’t care either. We don’t want your crappy changes to the beautiful game we enjoy.

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I wouldnt mind if once the game is dying from content drought (Naxx already released, and guild having it on farm) - to add a duel spec feature for ridiculous amounts of gold…

But to change respec costs is bad. This is our only true gold sink. Respec costs are why i still farm gold (Raid DS/Ruin, PvP Conflag = 100g per week). If you removed this then mats that people need will become increasingly harder to find on ah - and the prices will go through the roof for those items because supply/demand

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  1. Almost no one respecs twice a week. I would guess the average player respecs less than once a month, and the vast majority of players have probably never seen a respec higher than 20g.
  2. The vast majority of the gold players spend does not go to respecs. I have spent about 30-50g total in respecs since Classic launched. But I have spent at least that much on flights, and ten times that on repairs.

At one time the mats for +30 spell power alone was almost 300g on my server. I can guarantee people lose far more gold in AH fees/deposits than people spend on respecs.

And I pretty much never respec my alts, but I’ll gladly buy all my 60’s an epic mount.

I would bet only 1% of the population will EVER spend more than 1,000 gold in respecs. But if Blizzard offered dual-spec for 1000g, most players would buy it, including for their alts.

Keeping respec costs high is an incredibly ineffective way to remove gold from the game. High respec costs merely prevent people from respecing.

PS : In the first week of Naxx on Northdale, the average player in my guild spent about 2,000 gold in just consumables, and it is going to be much worse on Classic. A black lotus on Herod is going to be 250g+ by Naxx because of the population. You may not be spending a lot now because MC is so easy but just wait till you wipe 30 times on four-horsemen during progression.

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Cool, I didn’t realize it was capped at anything. I made it all this way without redoing talents (though I only ‘wasted’ 1 point so far).

Really seems like levelling varied alts is the best way to spend time in classic. Healer Tank DPS runaway. Since the level 60s all seem miserable anyway. :slight_smile: Send a lowbie alt some crafted gear, runecloth bags, and 50 gold for AH stuff and he’ll be the master of the universe until level 30-40 at least…

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Respec less often. Create a hybrid competent in both roles, and keep two gear sets. That’s the compromise as it worked in Vanilla. Or, if you must be absolutely optimized for a role to be effective, then what you really want is two toons, one for each. Swapping specs isn’t how we do this here. It’s expensive for a reason. Adapt.

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478

Um… the average player pvp’s and raids in the same spec? Thats news to me and several people i know that are grinding rank. I think this is just pure conjecture based on your personal play style. I can tell you i know A LOT of people that farm gold to afford the respecs after the raid is cleared each week.

Examples - Shamans that pvp ele or enhance. They are typically forced to heal raids so this doesnt work for them. Locks who are DS/Ruin are strong when they can get a cast off, but ultimately they are very weak vs any other lock build. Warriors rarely pvp as prot even though they are prot for raids. Spriests - well … you only typically take 1 to raid so if u want to shadow pvp - respec there too.

I have spent this much already on respecs - doubt im an anomaly since i can name 6 people that are in the top 10% pvp that are as well.

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The average player doesn’t rank, and the average player who is PvP’ing doesn’t respec for PvP(especially since the #1 BG is AV).

A lot of classes can do pretty much everything in the same spec. Other classes go a hybrid spec since MC is so easy.

If you look at only the top PvP’ers, pretty much every warrior and rogue respecs between raids, maybe mages and warlocks as well. But the vast majority of players are casuals, levelers, and raid-loggers. You aren’t an anomaly but you are quite rare.

Half the druids in my guild give me reagents every week because they come to raids PvP-spec’ed and don’t have improved mark of the wild.

Also, if you were SM/Ruin you probably wouldn’t care to respec for PvP either. DS/Ruin is the raidlogger spec.

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Only 1 lock in the guild is SM/Ruin - and even when i was that lock, i respec’d. Destro Fire is just too damn OP to ignore.

I still think that you are off on me being very rare since this seems to be normal in the circle i run with. Could it be based on my personal experience since my circle respecs constantly… yes. Do i believe it is? Nah.

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If you ran into 100 random people on your server, how many of them do you think respecs twice a week?

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100 random 60s? Id say at least 50 of them (1/2). It doesnt make sense to pvp in a raid spec with most classes. Healers are an exception but most healers i know want to pew pew in bgs since they are required to watch green bars the rest of their play time.

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Just realized this still shows me in Extremely Average. How long does it normally take to correct when you change a guild lol

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If you said 50% of the most hardcore players on the server, sure. But do you honestly think 50% of the people that you run random pug dungeons with are min-maxing like you?

I am in one of the biggest guilds on my server, and we run two separate MC groups a week. Out of 100 people in my guild, I would guess only about 10 are ranking, and half of those aren’t respec’ing.

And we are a fairly hardcore guild. The average player is far less likely to respec than the people in this guild.

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I bet you also argue that the majority of players arent 60 yet hhhahahhahah

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